Facing Obsolescence?
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- eryx0
keithrondinelli, I am kind of in the same boat as you are, though I don't have as much experience. It was suggested to me to take a few weeks and lean everything you can about jQuery or Objective-C something that is reasonably in demand as well as flash.
My plan is also to move away from development and try and get revenue from other sources.
- ukit0
So are you guys (Flash devs) actually seeing reduced demand from clients at this point? Or is it more a case of just reading the news and seeing where things are headed?
- keithrondinelli0
ukit, a combination of both. I definitely see less clients asking for Flash work, and, in reading the job boards, the word "Flash" is mentioned less and less. In general, I see HTML/XHTML/CSS/JQuery in almost every post. So....
- eryx0
I am still getting plenty of flash work. I just know there will be a demand for other things, Right now I offer an "Apple mobile OS" version of flash sites that I do that has some jQuery animation and contact information that works with the Google maps app and the email app. It is like an add on to a contract
If the client wants a full jQuery based website I tell them I can do it but it will cost a bit more and the Animation will be limited as compared to flash.
- ukit0
Do you think it will change the kind of site people ask for? Given that your typical odopod/ Big Spaceship style Flash site isn't really recreatable in JS/ HTML5 yet.
- eryx0
ukit I think like everything on the web there is a pros and cons to doing things with certain technologies. It depends on what the best solution for the the clients needs.
The problem is Apple has created something that complete shuts off an potential development option. If the client want a site that flash works perfectly for it will not show up on an ipad or iphone. But at the same time HTML 5 and JQuery are limited at this point in time and will most like not be able to catch up for years.
If I make an Apple mobile OS version of a clients site I keep an eye on how many times it is accessed. I also look at the types of devices used to access the site in Google analytics. If It turns out only 1% or 2% of visits come from an iphone, ipad than there is no point to develop the site in HTML5 or with jQuery.
What do you think?
- ukit0
Well I agree, why would you change everything to cater to 1-2%? On the other hand, don't blame Apple too much - there isn't Flash on most mobile devices yet, I think Adobe themselves predicted support on something like 5% of smartphones by the end of the year. And only 50% a few years from now.
- There is PLENTY to blame Apple for in this situation.CyBrain
- SoulFly0
If there is reduced demand for Flash, and Flash developers drop out for something else, then the demand will balance out at the end, maybe create even more work for the Flash developers.
Similar with the printing industry, at least on my end I see demand for experienced print designers, because so many people left the industry.
- ukit0
I guess a large part of this could rest on how Adobe sees Flash and where it decides to push it moving forward. Be interested to hear what Flash devs think but IMO Adobe really hasn't done such a great job with it since they acquired Macromedia.
- eryx0
ukit I did not think of other devices, good call on that, I am caught up in hype and controversy of the ipad, it is clear that the ipad is a far different from a cell phone, it is a new medium that could have made use of flash in a number of exiting ways.
The ipad was the big thing that made me start thinking in this direction. The question is:
is the iPad a product that is going to be useful to enough people, even without flash support, or is the ipad a type of technology that has no real purpose to most people like the apple TV?
I am just really disappointed that Apple and Adobe went this direction.
- PIZZA0
Adobe needs to focus on what flash was good for and designed for in the first place, instead of pitching it as an RIA platform or a mobile development platform or whatever flavour of the month people want.
- CyBrain0
I'm surprised how exonerated Steve Jobs is here.
What would really be interesting is what if an antitrust suit forces Apple to open the iOS to third parties.
Or if Smokescreen becomes successful. http://smokescreen.us/
- PIZZA0
All smokescreen will do is bring shitty flash banner ads to the iPhone. You would have to be a GENUINE CUNT to program such a horrible piece of software.
- munch0
Every meeting I'm in lately there is at least one person who brings up the iPad or iPhone. It really sucks but Apple and Steve Jobs are simply too influential in the creative community and we can't risk losing clients by insisting a site be built in Flash. So every project we are working on right now is XHTML/CSS/jQuery. If you know AS3 well then you should have no problem at all with jQuery. Honestly I think this is all a major step backwards and very disappointing but Flash will still have it's place. If you are interested in game development I would keep working on your Flash skills.
- CyBrain0
I had my first iPad-related client request today. It was just a simple 3d 360º rotation of a product I created in Cinema 4D. I output an H.264 video and asked our mobile/tech guys how they could put some interactive controls on it. They said it could be done but it would be too complex to do in house and would have to be outsourced. I haven't been at this job long enough to know whether the guy I was talking to was inept, but this doesn't sound like it bodes well for any of us.
Once again, I hate you to death, Steve Jobs.
- Ancillary0
Most of the anti Flash push from our agancy is internal, I clients don't give a shit. There's still heaps of Flash work though because some of the big immersive sites just can't be done in anything else.
I got a couple of books on iPhone dev and picked it up in a couple of weeks, it's not that hard you just have to do it.
I'm just abit sad that we're going to lose the simple, creative workflow of Flash.
- luckyorphan0
IMO, most clients don't need Flash for their sites. They will begin to realize this, and, when coupled with their desire to take advantage of some of the other things out there for which HTML 5 is better, Flash will become something that is simply not necessary.
Expand your skills.
- instrmntl0
iAds™!
- deathboy0
flash isnt going away. flash replaced javascript back in the 90s. more options better gui. hell flash player just released today i saw on wired for mobile devices. the whole argument on mobile devices was an opportunity mac thought they could exploit for purely video. they tried to make a big deal about it and in fact turned soem people to look for a html 5 video codec. but seems a lot of peopel arent down to pay the royalties to apple for there codec when there is free alternatives. it was a smart capitalistic albeit greedy opportunity to corner a market. with the free alternatives (vp3/ogg or whatever it is google has going) flash video may not be the best way anymore or simply not the best alternative or maybe it will eb fine with the new improved versions. for the rest of web content flash is still a very viable source. javascript is mro elimited then flash plain and simple. i dont know but can javascript fuck with alpha channels or have 3d imports? as3 is still a skillful tech to know, i wish i knew it.