Religulous
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- ukit0
Only criticism I have with "discuss religion with intelligent Christians"...
If I told you I worshipped the Flying Spaghetti Monster or that the Easter Bunny was real, would you demand a serious debate between academic equals? What about over Scientology? Mormonism?
Why is Christianity worthy of debate but not others? At some point it's all just "religion" and trying to debate it all is pointless, the debate would be over in five minutes. The thing is that most religious people are not basing their belief on reason, but on personal feelings/ culture and other things.
- yeah, it's pointless .. because they're never ever going to come round to the idea that God doesn't exist.lukus_W
- HijoDMaite0
Making fun of born-again Christians is like hunting dairy cows with a high powered rifle and scope.
P. J. O'Rourke- <THIS, its too easy, so ide rather not. i may not need that belief in my life to survive but..moldero
- who am i to say someone else doesn't have the right..moldero
- there are some people out there who dont kill, or rape just because of a fear of godmoldero
- good, but then again there are countries at war because of religion toomoldero
- i just stay out of it, if you need that belief more power to you, itd be nice if there was a godmoldero
- as a kid i was forced into religion in almost a cult like manner, i know the bible in and outmoldero
- being forced left a bad taste in my mouth, so when i was 16 i read other thingsmoldero
- many non western christian style religions, science, etc.moldero
- to me all that made more sense than Christianity.moldero
- oh btw HijoDMaite these posts arent directed at you, sorry, im just attempting to fly under the radar right heremoldero
- :pmoldero
- haha no worries.HijoDMaite
- nosaj0
Ukit,
I'd prefer to watch an interview with an intelligent person that believes in the Flying Spaghetti Monster than a simple person who is a target for easy humour. That said, I think it would be pretty hard to find one. There are a lot of bright Christians though.
- neowe0
steam - water - ice
- DRIFTMONKEY0
My parents always told me growing up to just respect what Jesus did. Not the dying part, but what he taught people. The message seemed pretty simple. Be kind to each other, love your neighbor, and don't hurt people. I don't have to worship deities or quote the bible to practice this.
- gramme0
The fact that religious belief of any kind is rooted in faith does not make it incompatible with logic, unless one considers human logic to be the ultimate achievement in the universe.
- Reality is firmly routed in logic though - and in order to live a reasonably coherent life we need reality.lukus_W
- *rooted (too much computer speak)lukus_W
- But is reality merely that which is tangible, and testable by logic? Or could it possibly encompass things which are intangible?gramme
- intangible?gramme
- Reality is a human construct which is useful to us - it's a prism which we use to view our part of the universe.lukus_W
- There are definitely more ways to view our part of the universe, but evolution has crafted us in such a way that our ability to rationalise serves an essential purpose to our lives.lukus_W
- rationalise serves an essential purpose to our lives.lukus_W
- We can choose to have faith in an 'other' - but history has taught blind-faith to be less productive.lukus_W
- Has it indeed?gramme
- Do you disagree? What are your thoughts?lukus_W
- mikotondria30
Which religious belief is not incompatible with what logistical principle ?
Ultimate achievement by what measure ?Your response, Gramme, is honestly so typical of those that I receive in these arguments, but it really has no content.. Basically, it's a way of responding to the accusation that there is no evidence of the Supernaturalism you declare to be real and true and that has an effect on physical things in the real world, by saying "ah ! there isn't any evidence, but so what ? evidence isn't necessary in this particular case, we've just brazenly asserted, so ner !, we *could* still be right, on your terms, if we just change the rules a little bit".
It's very weak, really, isn't it ?
- vitamins0
God gave us logic, yet he's punishing us for using it?
- gramme0
You've misunderstood me, and jumped to some unwarranted conclusions, haven't you?
Faith, at its core, involves belief in something intangible. But faith is often informed by history, and by facts anyone can observe. The point I was making is that I didn't have to leave my brain at the door when I became a Christian. There are questions science can answer, and questions it cannot. Science is rooted in the study of tangible things. Science cannot produce physical evidence and say "we've peered through the looking glass, gathered proof, and lo/behond: there is no metaphysical realm."
So, there is actually content in my statement, simple though it may be: science is incapable of dismissing the possibility of the supernatural. I'm acutely aware that I can't argue very strongly FOR the spiritual world from a scientific perspective. And that's as it should be; we would be naive to assume that science can answer all of our questions.
Another way of stating my original point is that it requires a leap of faith—faith in a misunderstanding of what science can actually prove—to say that faith and logic may not coexist without contradicting one another.
- @mikogramme
- aside: hi, fellow MO'n!mikotondria3
- Hi Bud! One day we'll share pints.gramme
- yes :) and argue about religion and typefaces.
Not sports though.mikotondria3
- neowe0
King James can (and probably did) suck a dick.
- kona0
This thread isn't complete yet.
- But now you're here. I am complete.gramme
- gramme, you can be zellweger in this situationneowe
- Right, I was waiting for a fart joke from you to make it complete.DrBombay
- lol gramme but no, you complete me. you,... complete, me.kona
- BAHAHA, you were just waiting weren't you... WAITING for me to say something weren't you. LOLkona
- gramme0
Anyway, haven't we already talked about this damned movie and every tangential subject ad nauseum?
- vitamins0
I believe in the possiblity of a God, a spiritual world, and creation. I can also agree that science still have no definite answers, but I can't believe that Jesus was the son of God. I can learn from the lessons of the bible or other religions since it's human based, but more of like a fable.
- That's fine, but you're making a philosophical statement.gramme
- Question, do you believe that people who are good, but don't accept Jesus goes to hell?vitamins
- I think the Catholics believe in a purgatory, but Christians believe they go to hell?vitamins
- Or maybe it's because it was misinterpretted by manvitamins
- I really believe it's unfair for good people to go to hell if they don't accept Jesus, this is my reasoningvitamins
- The only way to receive God's good grace is through his son, not by any deed we can do.gramme
- Our "good" has nothing to do with it; rather, it has everything to do with what God has already done.gramme
- The sum of statements in the Bible regarding how salvation takes place cannot easily be misinterpreted.gramme
- The subject was too thoroughly canvased by Jesus, Paul, Peter, Moses, Abraham, David, et al.gramme
- There is only one way the original Greek statement "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father but through me" can be interpreted.gramme
- but through me" can be interpreted.gramme
- And FYI: there is no mention of purgatory in the Bible.gramme
- But you're assuming that any of us can be good enough.gramme
- This really doesn't sound fair. Some people are more influenced depending on their environmentblogger
- gramme0
If you can get past the baroque, creepy music.
- lukus_W0
I was thinking about looking into Quakerism. It seems like a great faith - and something that I'd like to explore.
- Miesfan0
^
- gramme0
"To affirm an absolute negative is self-defeating." —Ravi Zacharias