December 7th 2013
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- Last post
- 24 Responses
- ZOOP
Seventy-two years ago The United States was forced into a war it tried to avoid. The world changed that day for millions, including my family.
Remember those who only wanted a better life for future generations; at the cost of their own.
- 20020
whos japanese in here?
- ?ZOOP
- you havent heard the news?2002
- 'splainZOOP
- This news? http://en.wikipedia.…
or this? http://www.hawaii.ed…ZOOP
- set0
'The US was forced into a war it tried to avoid'.
lol, yea right.
- US had stayed out of world war II successfully for nearly 2 years at that pointalbums
- Nanking massacre 1937, Poland invaded 1938, Pearl Harbor 1941; the U.S. (except some hawks) wanted peaceZOOP
- 'The US wanted peace'
lolset - Lucky for the UK that the US got involved, saved from destruction. Now the UK is a US lap dog. lolZOOP
- Understandable though, why some wanted to intervene, knowing that civilians were being murdered wholesaleZOOP
- funny then that the company that backed Hitlers chemical scientist was funded by GW Sr.'s money among others.
xpxhxoxexnxixx - The US funded the German government with $30 billion of 1930's depression era money.ZOOP
- That's where the autobahn (rapid military deployment) came from, among other advancementsZOOP
- The Russians had no hand in winning the war eh?chossy
- Read again, the US funded the German war machine. The ALLIES defeated the AXIS derpZOOP
- GeorgesIV0
lol zoop, really,
it's even on wikipedia so I don't have to paste some obscure page- Hawks always want war Georges, we know that. The country as a whole wanted no part of Europe's war or Asia's.ZOOP
- what are those hawks you're talking about, did you ever read the link (*polishes pocket turd :) )GeorgesIV
- Of course I read It. Even if Pearl Harbor was prepared for the attack the U.S. would have been at war.ZOOP
- Do you seriously think that war was avoidable either way at that point? smh GeorgesZOOP
- that's a nice shiny turd btwZOOP
- believe it or not, the war was avoidable, because a majority of 'murican didn't want to go, pearl harbor was the catalistGeorgesIV
- I don't believe you read the link or you wouldn't have asked me that question.. but fuck itGeorgesIV
- Oh, I see, all they had to do was ask Japan to turn around once the attack was imminent. thanksZOOP
- If you read that link and absorbed it, you'd know that Japan was going to attack no matter what.ZOOP
- you didn't read the page at all, the thing wasn't to prevent an attack, but to save soldier's lives because they knew it would happen, but if you want to circlejerk, I'll repeat it, they knew about it in advance and let it happpen to the popular opinion would changeGeorgesIV
- happen, but if you want to circlejerk, I'll repeat it, they knew about it in advance and let it happpen to the popular opinion would changeGeorgesIV
- would change, they let their own soldier perish to make a buck, thats despicable, and you're defending itGeorgesIV
- Japan had declared war, and sent the attack fleet. If we intercepted, war still... it was FORCED.ZOOP
- wut?GeorgesIV
- Tell me what difference would it have made? Japan was still dead set on war with the US, it was inevitable.ZOOP
- Do you think the declaration of war would have been ignored even if the attack was mitigated?ZOOP
- saving the lives of those soldiers, isn't it enough? you post a thread about how your familly suffered, but show no apparent empathy for the lives of those soldiers, read the fuckn link man, then lets talk history againGeorgesIV
- for the lives of those soldiers, read the fuckn link man, then lets talk history againGeorgesIV
- declaration of war? do you even know what you're talking about?GeorgesIV
- I read it, and known about that for over two decades. Calling me a liar isn't helping your position btw.ZOOP
- The declaration of war by Japan was delayed, that's common knowledge. What's your point?ZOOP
- "they let the soldier die so they could lead the us population into the war " what isn't clear?GeorgesIV
- You say "they knew" as if the entire military was complicit. The fact is that most didn't know. c'mon GeorgesZOOP
- READ THE FUCKN LINK,
they could have saved these soldiers they didn't,GeorgesIV - Glossing over the intention behind this thread is classic Georges, it was merely to honor the innocent.ZOOP
- troll away asshole
afkZOOP - can't find a real point, lets retort to name calling, so puerile, but why am I even arguing WWII with the jingoist brain dead?GeorgesIV
- I gave you a wiki links, with other sources material at the bottom, nobody is trolling this thread except yourselfGeorgesIV
- you missed the entire point, all you're playing the blame game, we KNOW it was allowed, similar to 911 ffsZOOP
- if you know, where's the anger towards those who let it happen, why are you insulting me instead of them,GeorgesIV
- wow.. 30 messages .. im assuming some heated debate is happening.autoflavour
- Your post to the left there assumes much, and speaks even more of what you thought when you posted it. jsZOOP
- heya auto lol
:DZOOP
- ZOOP0
@ Georges: This thread was nothing more than a tribute to people that didn't get a choice in their fate, they simply received it. It was America's introduction into the worldwide carnage already at hand, not it's creation, and the fact that aggressors on both sides lead to the tragedy of Dec. 7th 1943 doesn't bring the victims back to life; so I'll ask you this:
Can you please allow the families forever affected recognition of their loss, pure and simple?
- what is history, if we just can gloss over what we don't like to hear, last time I checked, this site wasn't your personal blogGeorgesIV
- You just don't like being wrong, I can accept that. Have a great day sir.ZOOP
- who's the one here finishing a simple history debate by name calling, you didn't provide anything, just a sad appeal to sentimentGeorgesIV
- sentiment,GeorgesIV
- What did you add? Bile and contempt, completely ignoring the reason of this thread and trollingZOOP
- the premise of this thread is flawed as pointed by pr2,GeorgesIV
- No, you two just jumped to conclusions. Ask me a question about a comment instead of a smug post. tyZOOP
- fooler0
My grandfather was a turret captain on the uss Tennessee that day. He was in an officers meeting when the strike begain and the turret he was in charge of was destroyed and he lost all his men.
He lived well into his 90s and passed away a few years ago but only begain talking about his experience that day a a few years before his death.- My relatives from WW2 passed away also, one on my birthday. Truly our greatest generation, I miss them.ZOOP
- pr20
ZOOP you really have to learn your history. But beside the history, what's more important, also how forces of power work. If you think that power - any power be it Hitler, Roosevelt, Bush, Obama, Putin - you name it - cares about anyone else but certain specific interests than you are too far down the rabbit hole to help. Still if you can accept that the powers will do ANYTHING, including sending literally millions to their deaths in pursuit of their goals then there is hope that one day you will discover that US public NEVER wanted the war or wants the war UNLESS an orchestrated even such as Pear Harbor (lead to WWII), Gulf of Tonkin (lead to Vietnam War), 9/11 (lead to War on Terror - whatever that really means) rallies them up in support of whatever twisted agenda the powers have.
- What did I misrepresent or relay inaccurately? example pleaseZOOP
- I don't think you've read the entire conversation.ZOOP
- please have respect for the families of those who dies but could have been saved... pleezGeorgesIV
- Nobody here caused their deaths, and other than you nobody is playing the blame game GeorgesZOOP
- I love history and most of what we know is full of holes, now we can commemorate as much as we want, but i will repeat what I said before, these death could have been averted,GeorgesIV
- have been averted,GeorgesIV
- pr20
"Seventy-two years ago The United States was forced into a war it tried to avoid. "
People didn't want the ware but the politicians (the power) did. And they found a clever way to convince people how to get angry and willingly enter the war."The world changed that day for millions, including my family."
Yes, including my family."Remember those who only wanted a better life for future generations; at the cost of their own."
This is a nice romanticized notion often used in talks of patriotism and such but if you really read account of people who were there AND are honest about the experience they will say that the death was such inevitability that they often didn't thinking about the future much less future generations. They wanted to make love as soon as meeting another person because tomorrow was so uncertain AND specifically because tomorrow was so uncertain they were willing to sacrifice their lives very willingly. It had very little to do with "future generations."- Those lost weren't at war and WERE planning futures, you've taken a comment out of context.ZOOP
- then are you commemorating only those few thousand lost at PH? and forget about millions??pr2
- There are many facets to any armed conflicts, but this one in particular. Too many for this little box. ;-)ZOOP
- That's why peps like me get agitated when only "one version of events" is presented.pr2
- holy shiiii.... again READ above, remember those who died that day, it affected millionsZOOP
- I tried to explain to zoop that the death of soldiers at PH could have been averted, but I'm an insensitive troll asshole..GeorgesIV
- YOU are the one who's wording of first post is so inarticulate that it creates GAPING holes in both logic and knowledge of history.pr2
- It was meant to be simple, in order to avoid this very thing, some just look for reasons... fukkitZOOP
- You have to control your words more if your aim is "simplicity" and no controversy. Words have power.pr2
- the MAJORITY of the US including military wanted to avoid war, the wording is accurateZOOP
- the fact i didn't caption a statement about this faction or that being implicated would have sullied the effortZOOP
- much like this postZOOP
- "The United States" can mean the people OR the ones who actually are calling the shots. You can't presume that people will read you mind which one of those YOU mean.pr2
- ...your mind which one of those YOU mean.pr2
- One doesn't one the war (so it makes your statement correct) the other does want the word (so it makes your statement incorrect).pr2
- ... incorrect).pr2
- Can you type that again please? It got chopped up a little.ZOOP
- One (people) doesn't want war while others (politicians) do.pr2
- Not true, even most politicians don't want war, higher percentage than the general population of course.ZOOP
- Dreamland is calling.pr2
- sleep well friendo :DZOOP
- Al_dizzle0
Read 'The Imperial Cruise' by James Bradley. Theres a lot of insights into the events leading up to the attack.
Pearl Harbor was the result of years of and American Imperialist agenda meddling in pacific Asia... sowing awful seeds reaps these kinds of horrible results.
- <this
but yeah again this isn't what the thread was for. oh well...ZOOP
- <this
- Continuity0
'but yeah again this isn't what the thread was for'
Considering QBN's large non-US membership, I'm kind of wondering what you were expecting, exactly.
- simple respect for the dead... or silence. I would offer the same to ANYONE sir.ZOOP
- I'm sure the families of dead civilians in Iraq, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia, Somalia, et al appreciate the sentiment.Continuity
- When they see Americans protesting war after war, people understand what's going on.ZOOP
- I think those people are still waiting for these little protests of yours to manifest into something more meaningful.Continuity
- Like occupy or the battle in Seattle? At present our ability to protest is being met with crushing violence.ZOOP
- GeorgesIV0
show me where I'm lacking respect to those who died or their famillies? I repeatedly pointed that they could have been saved and apparently I am an asshole to the families for thinking maybe they could have been alive today if the people at the top didn't let the attack happen to change the public perception.
----
Hawks always want war Georges, we know that. The country as a whole wanted no part of Europe's war or Asia's.– ZOOP1/29
what are those hawks you're talking about, did you ever read the link (*polishes pocket turd :) )– GeorgesIV2/29
Of course I read It. Even if Pearl Harbor was prepared for the attack the U.S. would have been at war.– ZOOP3/29
Do you seriously think that war was avoidable either way at that point? smh Georges– ZOOP4/29
that's a nice shiny turd btw– ZOOP5/29
believe it or not, the war was avoidable, because a majority of 'murican didn't want to go, pearl harbor was the catalist– GeorgesIV6/29
I don't believe you read the link or you wouldn't have asked me that question.. but fuck it– GeorgesIV7/29
Oh, I see, all they had to do was ask Japan to turn around once the attack was imminent. thanks– ZOOP8/29
If you read that link and absorbed it, you'd know that Japan was going to attack no matter what.– ZOOP9/29
you didn't read the page at all, the thing wasn't to prevent an attack, but to save soldier's lives because they knew it would happen, but if you want to circlejerk, I'll repeat it, they knew about it in advance and let it happpen to the popular opinion would change– GeorgesIV10/29
happen, but if you want to circlejerk, I'll repeat it, they knew about it in advance and let it happpen to the popular opinion would change– GeorgesIV11/29
would change, they let their own soldier perish to make a buck, thats despicable, and you're defending it– GeorgesIV12/29
Japan had declared war, and sent the attack fleet. If we intercepted, war still... it was FORCED.– ZOOP13/29
wut?– GeorgesIV14/29
Tell me what difference would it have made? Japan was still dead set on war with the US, it was inevitable.– ZOOP15/29
Do you think the declaration of war would have been ignored even if the attack was mitigated?– ZOOP16/29
saving the lives of those soldiers, isn't it enough? you post a thread about how your familly suffered, but show no apparent empathy for the lives of those soldiers, read the fuckn link man, then lets talk history again– GeorgesIV17/29
for the lives of those soldiers, read the fuckn link man, then lets talk history again– GeorgesIV18/29
declaration of war? do you even know what you're talking about?– GeorgesIV19/29
I read it, and known about that for over two decades. Calling me a liar isn't helping your position btw.– ZOOP20/29
The declaration of war by Japan was delayed, that's common knowledge. What's your point?– ZOOP21/29
"they let the soldier die so they could lead the us population into the war " what isn't clear?– GeorgesIV22/29
You say "they knew" as if the entire military was complicit. The fact is that most didn't know. c'mon Georges– ZOOP23/29
READ THE FUCKN LINK,
they could have saved these soldiers they didn't,– GeorgesIV24/29
Glossing over the intention behind this thread is classic Georges, it was merely to honor the innocent.– ZOOP25/29
troll away assholeafk– ZOOP26/29
can't find a real point, lets retort to name calling, so puerile, but why am I even arguing WWII with the jingoist brain dead?– GeorgesIV27/29
I gave you a wiki links, with other sources material at the bottom, nobody is trolling this thread except yourself– GeorgesIV28/29
you missed the entire point, all you're playing the blame game, we KNOW it was allowed, similar to 911 ffs– ZOOP29/29< previous notenext note >+ add noteadd note
- wow calm the fuck down lolZOOP
- I'm just responding to your nonsense above by posting the convo, tell me where I'm insensitive..GeorgesIV
- it was before all that
:DZOOP - but you are putting words in mt mouth I never said, it's cool I forgive you :DZOOP
- neither did I, but you retorted to calling me an asshole when I was just saying it sucked they had to dieGeorgesIV
- Psst ... Georges ... 'resorted'Continuity
- ZOOP0
I shouldn't have called you an asshole Georges, even If it felt like you were trolling, my apologies sir.
You are indeed a scholar and a gentleman.
- fuck you troll :)
I tip my fedora to you and ask you for forgivenessGeorgesIV - Wait, you called me brain dead? Look at the original comments, that wasn't in there! haha hidden message revealedZOOP
- awww fuck now I'm a troll too lol
damnZOOP - If I'm ever in Italy I'll buy you a beer, should I live that long haha!
:DZOOP - I agree that in the future I should refrain from being so cynical, It often come out assholy, lets touch tip nowGeorgesIV
- Georges you've seen me get the same way, none of us are perfect. ^5ZOOP
- touch tip loool I ummm... fist bump?ZOOP
- fuck you troll :)
- autoflavour0
159 years ago there was the American Civil War: Battle of Prairie Grove, Arkansas... but you dont see people starting threads about it
- oey0
they tried to avoid the war to happen or tried to avoid to enter in the war?
- fooler0
Just for the record my grandfather ( see above ) was never a flag waver. He did what he had to do and it was awful. We tried to get him to go back for reunions and he'd always say "what would I want to go back there and revisit those memories where I lost so many men".
He hated seeing the people on the news every Dec 7th "bragging" that they were there.
- ArchitectofFate0
th emost interestin thing about ww2 http://gawker.com/5843124/hugo-b…
Was it really a worldwar before the us got involved? When is it ok to finally not giva a shit and get on with it?
or maybe just read the short info on russia vs finland in the winter war. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Win…
The only ones getting f-cked over was the jews+, and ultimately the germans who paid for their ignorance, the same way the euro-americans will have to bow for china in the next 10-20years
