Signing away your rights
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- Ranger
OK so a company who I have done a lion share of my work with for the last ten years is suddenly asking me to sign an agreement stating that I can't use any work produced ever with them for any kind've promotion. Basically any consultants can't post any work anywhere.
How do people normally deal with these kind've things? Do you sign, argue, call it quits?
Does anyone have a portfolio site they send agencies/clients with only work in a password area?
- scruffics0
what, they want you to stop posting your work retrospectively? or any work produced from now on?
- Yeah retrospectively and from now onRanger
- tell them it's something they should have thought of 10 years ago. There is no way i'd agree to do this without them covering the cost of potential loss of work this would result in.scruffics
- ...cost of potential loss of work this would result in.scruffics
- I agree with scrufficsmonospaced
- absolutelyset
- microkorg0
If the work you've done for them forms a large part of your portfolio then you'll want to be able to show it off in your portfolio.
Think you are along the right lines of thinking about a password protected portfolio. Speak to this client saying that you won't sign away all rights but you will put the work behind a password protected barrier that will stop Google listing the work but will still allow you to send out your full portfolio to people.
I'd still have a duplicate folio (minus that client) on your website that is available to all though. You don't want to put off potential clients because they have to drop you an email to get a password to view your site.
- Can stop pages being indexed anyway but I don't think that alone would satisfy them.Ranger
- monospaced0
I might be wrong, but I believe that you can still show this work on your website even if you sign their document. My understanding is that you are allowed to show work you created to promote yourself as a designer, and that it would be difficult to stop that like they are intending.
Unless the work is confidential, or you signed a document beforehand agreeing that none of the work would be made public in any way, I feel like you are protected. You're not going around promoting a competitive business, you're promoting your professional personal self only and that is usually not a problem.
- yes, they own the rights to use what you created, but you are also the original creator protected by creation rightsmonospaced
- you can't show it if you sign the document. but it's probably not legal to cover retro active workdoesnotexist
- uan0
I can't show any work done for most agencies I have worked for, but that was clearly defined in contracts from start on.
What I do is, I tell new agencies/clients I can't post any work because of the agreement. I get them to arrange a meeting where I can show all the work in a 1 to 1 situation. It's a good way to get a foot in.
- monospaced0
Did they specifically say to you that they don't want you to use their work on your website or to gain new work? As in, a "take that down immediately and sign this" kind of thing? If not, it might be just a legality and a paper to sign. I figure after a decade of work with them you'd have a good idea of their intention.
They might not know your right, you can probably explain to them that showing the work you did for them is non-competitive and totally within your professional and ethical rights. Anyway, good luck.
- Morning_star0
- Does this hold for the UK? I always thought it was a US only thing.Ranger
- This also
http://www.wearesour…Morning_star - Read the comments too, some good stuff.
Morning_star
- scruffics0
what is your relationship with the client? what a weird thing to request 10 years down the line
- Ranger0
They've sent out this agreement to all contractors this week. The wording is 'without permission in writing' but it has since emerged that they're taking the stance that no work produced can be used. They're claiming that this is because they have signed some stuff themselves but I get the feeling it is more so the world doesn't see freelancers with the same work on their site as them. They have this stuff all over their site.
I don't have a portfolio site at the moment so as it is it doesn't make a difference to me but the fact that they're trying to close that door for me is annoying.
- nb0
A crazy idea: send them a response explaining that as a designer this type of agreement could drastically reduce your ability to charge industry rates and/or find work and that you could only sign it after being compensated for this loss of work.
Calculate the amount of experience per year that you think you'd get coming straight out of school, and how much you would charge now with ten years industry experience. Multiply this by the number of years it could take to rebuild that portfolio.
Essentially, ask for something ridiculous like $70,000 to cover the previous ten years (only $7K per year, that's hardly anything) plus inform them that you'll be increasing your rates to them by 20% for future work to cover this new agreement. Don't pick a number out of thin air, though, try to figure out your actual loss of potential. Show them the calculation.
Make it formal and professional. It sounds crazy, but when you consider that they are asking you to sign these rights away FOR FREE, I would say that also is crazy.
- that sounds a tad extrememonospaced
- Yeah, I did start by saying 'crazy idea'!nb
- :D hopefully it doesn't get to this pointmonospaced
- cannonball19780
Do it! Sign away your rights! What do you have to lose?!
- Ranger0
Thanks for the thoughts people, it's good to hear some other thoughts on it.
This guy's comment was good from Morning Star's link
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I would tend to disagree slightly with your legal interpretation. While the work done for an agency is under a "work for hire" copyright arrangement, there is a long-standing practice of creatives including work in a portfolio. Therefore, in the absence of a specific contract, normal industry practice applies. Which means that, unless you have signed an agreement to the contrary, the agency has the copyright for all uses, but you are allowed to put the work in your folio.
On a more practical level, for an online portfolio, make sure that none of your work comes up in searches by client or agency name. So avoid using client or agency names when naming pages, files, images or alt tags and minimise the mentions of these client names in headers.
- Your existing contracts state the anything you do is "Work for Hire"?Josev
- organicgrid0
Better Call Saul
- i_monk0
If they've kept coming back to you for 10 years, you have a bit of leverage there. Say no until they give you, in writing, specific permission to include your work in your portfolio, credited to yourself.
- noneck0
- <scruffics
- like $$$doesnotexist
- i like this showmonospaced
- zarkonite0
In effect, if you have, so far, had the right to use the work for your portfolio then if they want to modify that agreement some compensation is in order.
Offer them to purchase your rights or tell them to fuck off, kindly. Do you still work for them?
- fourth0
The "don't show your work in your portfolio" phrasing sounds like a guise to transfer ownership of your work over to them. I'd give it to a lawyer to look over.
- Gnash0
It's quite common for agencies ask this of contractors. Partly because they can't control how you present the work, partly because they want to protect their asset (you) from being hired directly by their client, and also because they may well have confidentially agreements with clients who don't want details of promotions easily available to their competitors.
Since the contract they gave you states "without permission in writing" try asking them for permission in writing so that you can include the work in a future online portfolio.
- regardless of an agreement. You can still show any of the work in a one-on-one situation, like in an interview.Gnash
- *unless you design for the ciaGnash
- *unless you used PixelPaintorganicgrid
- cannonball19780
Just don't sign it.
Problem solved.
"Sorry I can't sign that. It prevents me from showing work that I have done, which I need to do for my livelihood."
Dont buckle to the everyone signs it bullshit.