Client wants layout files

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  • i_monk

    Just got an email from the new comms manager at a place I did a big job for a year ago (annual report, basically), asking for the layout and other source files. From the sounds of it she's more interested in archiving than passing it along (the branding used throughout was anniversary-related, not much use now, and they supplied the photography).

    I'm inclined to say no on the grounds we didn't agree to this up front, which seems to be the default legal position (nonexclusive rights, etc). And I'm in the middle of this year's annual report, and I don't want them to expect *those* files too.

    Am I right?

  • Hayoth0

    yes or link each page as a PDF and password protect them like a boss.

  • ETM0

    Who cares, really. But that said, they don't need working files to archive. A press-ready PDF is all they should need.

    • Send the PDF along with a folder containing the photos they provided.ETM
    • You know they want all the table and graph files so they can do the report next year.Hayoth
  • noneck3

    "Sure. Let me send you a quote/estimate for that."

  • mekk1

    1. Be evil and use Adobe CC for indesign files, use layers and lock elements within layers and confuse them with complex templates.
    2. Charge extra for layout files.
    3. (recommended) Tell them your layout files belong to you and that your living is based on having them.

  • sureshot0

    PDF

  • Projectile0

    I still can't help feeling it's a dick move to hold onto those files, unless it's clear they just want to find someone cheaper to make updates when you should be the go-to.

    Clients would probably never agree to paying you to do work for them if they thought that you wouldn't give them access to editable files two years down the line.

    They just don't think of it.

  • monospaced0

    I struggle with this way too often. I despise handing over working files, because I know they really don't "need" them unless they want to do the work themselves, or move on to another designer. One client told me it's just for archival purposes, and argued when I said I was already holding them and backing them up for that reason.

    Too often I've had the conversation where I try to explain why I want to charge for working files, and it almost never goes over well. Last client I worked with would have dropped us if we didn't hand them over at no cost. There's still a little friction.

    I am working on revising the contracts to be clear about what final files are delivered. I even write in emails that they will agree to receiving print-ready files for their project.

    For some reason, it just feels wrong to hand them over, even though I do it.

    • same.Gnash
    • You should probably revise your contract and educating your clients —the more designers/agencies make this the norm, the better.AVAVA
    • *educate. Also, if your client doesn't value you, you're better off with a new client that does.AVAVA
    • My client doesn't fully value us, but I like the $ and that the work keeps coming. Keeping an eye out for a replacement.monospaced
  • Projectile0

    Mono, do you say print-ready ONLY? Make that clear from the start and there will be no friction.

    But seriously, from their side... if they want to use a diagram from something you made for them in a presentation, just to refer to it.. they've gotta scan it in? Or book in time with you and wait a week for you to supply the image?

    • I say that now, from the start, and even then it's not guarantee they won't expect them. They never say what they need from it, they just want the files.monospaced
    • For me it's just one client. They had a designer they used before who just handed everything over standard, so expect the same and won't accept they cost $monospaced
    • the solution for me was to just charge more and never mention it... I just bake the file charge into my invoices and nobody's the wiser. everyone winsmonospaced
  • formed0

    There's no way to really win. You supply the files you keep the blood good but risk being replaced. You don't supply it and you've surely lost a client.

    I've probably come up with something like "those files have been archived, I'd have to go through them, make sure all the links work, etc."

    most of the time, I just say something like "there are dozens of links, plugins, software versions, etc. It's impossible to hand off something that would just open on your computer". Usually they'll just say "oh, ok, never mind".

    If you want to be passive aggressive you can send them files and make sure they links don't work.

    • You could also use this to ask what they want it for, acting like you want to help them archive things.formed
    • As I said above, why do you need to "archive" working files? You need to archives print-ready files unless you plan on reusing them elsewhere.ETM
    • Only the designer needs to archive working files.ETM
    • Not necessarily. When I hire someone to do something, I get the files and archive them, never know where someone will be in 3 yearsformed
  • i_monk0

    It does feel dickish doesn't it? But then FYPM.

  • AVAVA0

    Remembered this from somewhere, something like...

    "All source files or tools are used as the blueprint by which we create the design/artwork, and it is the design/artwork that is sold, not the blueprint."

    • actually, you do get the blueprintGnash
    • I guess that would be correct if you had not stipulated it in your agreement...AVAVA
  • autoflavour0

    i get that occasionally with video projects.. I deliver the finished project, as discussed, they pay, then request all the raw footage..

    i usually tell them to fuck off..

    you paid me to make a clip, you signed off on what i delivered.. and you paid me.. I wasnt working just as your cameraman so you can get your nephew to tinker with it..

    • < This.Continuity
    • raw footage is not the same as the layout files. It'd be more like you handing over the final edited piece before the exportGnash
    • I paid 2X to my video guys at my wedding so I could have all the footage. They were happy to hand it over for the $$$ :)monospaced
    • yeah, ask me upfront and we can work something out.. but after delivery.. nopeautoflavour
    • yeah, we asked up front since my best man is a professional editor and wanted to edit my video himselfmonospaced
  • Maaku2

    Send everything in a Word doc, see if they like that shit too.

    • Hai_monk
    • We got stiffed on some 3D work, the new team asked for the files - I sent them shittiest, ugliest, 3ds file imaginable. Chew on that, fuck-knuckles.face_melter
    • They then asked for all the textures to match the image I had done. I told them I did 80% of the work in post - they almost shit themselves.face_melter
  • fyoucher10

    Personally I would just give them the files, especially since you're working on ANOTHER project for them this year. But if you really don't want to but want to make it look like you did...

    Just send them a ZIP with a shitload of deeply nested folders, with the main folder called 'source files', with their images in them every now and then, maybe even duplicates, throw in some Work docs, and other files they probably can't open, and possibly a PDF. And then like 10 folders deep, have a markdown file (.md extension), that has a binary pattern of GFY or a middle finger. Or not.

    • Or just put it in an EPS. Shit makes everything scalable, even Word docs.fyoucher1
    • Defrauding your clients will do wonders for your reputation.zarkonite
  • monospaced0

    It wasn't even entirely intentional when I started, but I ended up with InDesign files linked inside other InDesign files so that, when I did hand over the native working files, the client had to update one file, then another just to get a new print file. I did this for reasons that made sense during development, but it's surely the reason I'm still getting edit requests after sending native files. :)

    • good one ;)Gnash
    • it was because the design was a folded sheet, and I couldn't design upside-down for some parts, so I just linked them up :)monospaced
    • i do the same - or sometimes just the cover as an importGnash
  • vaxorcist0

    Once I had a client who asked for the "original files" but really just needed to be able to change some "official footer" text tweek on every single page and they thought it would be easier for them to do a "find and replace" , as they envisioned it being like PowerPoint,etc...

    But once we talked, they realized it wasn't the case... and the reason they wanted to be able to make the change was that the "official footer" text kept changing based on whatever the CEO thought was best for a particular investment pitch... long story...

  • OSFA1

    Archiving my ass. They want to have those files so they can either shop around or bring 'their' guys - specially if the person is new at the position (they want to show the bosses how they can cut costs and get shit done with their resources).

    If you didn't agree to this at contract/approval, tell them it was not part of the job and that if they want them, they have t pay for them.

  • monospaced0

    Ok, next logical question, and one that I find really hard to justify.

    What is a native file worth in relation to the finished print file. Just as much, 50%, what?

    • Good q.i_monk
    • it depends on the item. Annual reports are generally very different every year so I don't see that much value in it for them.Gnash
    • what are they really gonna do with last years' ARGnash
    • my question was more generalmonospaced
    • I know, mono.Gnash
  • randommail0

    Maybe to the client, their "cost" of the native files is literally how much it would cost them to have someone else replicate all the work from scratch. So purely an hourly production rate.

  • zarkonite1

    I think the minimum you charge them is the time it takes you to unarchive and package the project.

    As for the cost of the actual asset, I'd say at least as much as the print files. If you want to charge them at all...

    Can you try to have a conversation about their intentions? How good is your personal relationship with your contact over there? Try to offer your help with whatever they're trying to do... all in all I'd try positive reinforcement rather than the passive aggressive borderline fraudulent suggestions that have been made.