Flooring/carpentry help

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  • nocomply2

    Thank you everyone for making this the talk of the town today!

    terry_cloth is going to skewer me for the bastardized fix, but thanks to everyone's input and a little of my own ingenuity I've got this thing done!

    It turned out to be easy, free, and most importantly, saved me a trip to home depot.

    eryx's photo of the pliers bracing the nail while the hammer pries it out was the game winner. Using that technique the suckers popped right out. I would have never known to do that if I didn't see a photo of it.

    As for the liquid nails, I opted for Goop instead. It's kind of like shoe goo, or this product I used to use called E6000. I'm familiar with it, and I'm comfortable with how it works, so that's what's most important. And the stuff is strong as all fuck once it sets.

    So now the board is back in place, the glue is drying, and heavy objects are sitting on top of it while everything sets. Also note the beer in hand.

    I. HAVE. MADE. FLOORING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    The beer in the photo is unopened, and I'm busy as hell, but screw it, I'm opening this thing because it needs to be done.

    • Ha. Heavy object.pango
    • no skewerage, if you are happy i am happy. i prefer to over engineer things so i don't ever have to deal with the same problem twice but if you wanna us shoeterry_cloth
    • goo for your flooring then god bless you in that endeavorterry_cloth
    • *useterry_cloth
    • Thank you for your blessing.nocomply
    • Also, just occurred to me that my "heavy object" is KONA beer!! Serendipity, my friend.nocomply
    • *blushes
      Well done!!!
      kona
  • kona4

    To get those nails out you're going to need a pair of pliers and brute strength. If you can't pull them straight out bend them back and forth until they snap off, then hammer in whatever was left sticking up.

    Once everything is back flush, run to Ace or Home Depot and pick up a tube of "liquid nails". You'll need a tube and caulk gun.

    Run the liquid nails goop along the exposed area of the base board, not the one that broke off.

    Place the one that popped off back into place.

    Put some heavy books or sit on it.

    Liquid nails your son to the bed in his room. That will teach him.

    Have a beer.

    Rip off shirt.

    Scream into the air "I. HAVE. MADE. FLOORING"

    • If you do want to nail it yes, you will use finishing nails for floors. Ask your store pro what they would recommend for a hammer.kona
    • I would recommend the hammer of thor but that's just me.kona
    • They will recommend a finishing hammer. It's small and light weight so you'll be less inclined to hit the nails too hard into the floor and the head of the...kona
    • hammer dents the floor and imprints it's head into the wood, or cracks it. That would be bad. Liquid nails should work though.kona
    • Kona your answer made my day! So liquid nails is good enough? No hammering in new finishing nails?nocomply
    • Liquid nails is scary strong. Just don't put too much so it oozes out all over everything. http://www.liquidnai…kona
    • PS - Should have mentioned I tried pulling the nails out with pliers but it felt like I was going to break the board. Think I'll need to break the nails off.nocomply
  • terry_cloth3

    http://www.walmart.com/ip/8-Leng…. Get a pair of those, you roll the nails out using the rounded head as a fulcrum. You may need a shim or a block to protect the corner of your flooring if you don't plan on being slow and steady. Brute strength is not the answer here

    • https://www.youtube.…yurimon
    • Those are cool Yuri, definitely overkill though, he's only yanking finish nailsterry_cloth
    • Thanks terry_cloth! When you say "roll," you essentially mean pulling the nails out, but like rocking them back & forth what that special pliers tool, right?nocomply
    • Correct, it shouldn't take much back and forth though, mechanical advantage and so forth. Get the smallest pair of those you can find, less surface area of theterry_cloth
    • Tool means less pressure on the edge of the peice you are working on. Finish nails don't take much convincing to dislodgeterry_cloth
  • eryx1

    I am not sure if you could use these because the gap is to big and I think you would have to build up the face of the stair so it is level but it is a start.

    • it's called padding out, yea, he could cleat and pad out and throw one of these on. i think this is a great solutionterry_cloth
    • btw, the face already is level, he would just need to pad the cavity so there would be something for this jazz to sit onterry_cloth
    • http://www.homedepot…eryx
    • ^to big a gap for this?eryx
    • haha, that's crazy. good old, regular 2x4 blocks chopped down into cleats every two feet would be more than enoughterry_cloth
    • lol I guess if you want to do it the easy way.eryx
    • plus, you would need like 8 bags of that to fill that chasm, you would then need to reinforce the structure to hold all that weight, then you would need to useterry_cloth
    • a powder actuated ramset to fasten anything to it but yaknow, whatever worksterry_cloth
    • Since self leveling cement is not very viscous by nature, it wouldn't have stayed in the void, regardless. It would run out and into everything via any gap.ETM
    • anywaysterry_cloth
  • terry_cloth1

    Also, you may want to hit the inside of the jaws with a file, they come a little too sharp and prone to cutting the nail instead of gripping it. You don't want broken off nail stubs, they will prevent you from getting a tight fit. Also, what am I looking at here? Is that the threshold, are you sure you mean baseboard? Those pics are confusing, did you mean subfloor?

    • I know it's not a "baseboard." That's just the closest terminology I could think of. As you can see, I'm a terrible carpenter.nocomply
    • Think of it like a board that covers the edge of a step, if that helps at all.nocomply
    • Oh I see, it's some kind of super trip hazard pseudo stair tread. Wow, that's kinda specialterry_cloth
    • For the record... that would be called a "Stair Nosing".ETM
    • And if I were you I would install a few solid wood blocks in that void.ETM
    • lol, it's called shitty laminate stair nosing that is inherently unsafe and is little more than a cap to hide shotty workmanshipterry_cloth
    • real nosing sits flush with the flooring, for the record . . . .terry_cloth
    • *facepalmETM
    • what are you facepalming about skippy, facepalm at this stupid ass trip hazard masquerading as nosingterry_cloth
  • nocomply0

    Jeez, you guys are really debating the nuances of this. It's definitely some kind of "nosing" or cap, but I know not the terminology of these things.

    I think I'm going to go back and hammer in some finishing nails once the glue dries to make this piece extra secure and childproof.

    Want some better photos?

    • i dont know what kind of child could do this..yurimon
    • call it semantics if you'd like, what it is demands what the approach should beterry_cloth
    • also, pre-drill, don't split the stupid thingterry_cloth
    • ^ +1. Take your time, make it straight.eryx
    • Will do. Thanks for the tip!nocomply
  • fyoucher11

    Don't use liquid nails, thats not going to be strong enough. That's a piece of stair nose that came out and you're going to need something super strong. Take the existing nails out first. Then you'll need to put new finishing nails in, about every two feet, and double up on the ends. Then use PL400 adhesive to stick it to there good. Use a lot but not so much that it's coming out of the edges. Then cover up nail holes with putty afterwards. Wait a couple of days for it to dry before walking on it again.

    http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p…

    • good product, be careful not to get the glue on any finished surface. Don't gob it on and Have a damp cloth readyeryx
    • is it nosing? it kinda looks like there is a lighter colored band on the high side of the stair where the piece sat on top of the floor in stead of flushterry_cloth
    • it must have sat on top, theres no meat for it to have sat flush. i donno, that second picture is messing with my mindterry_cloth
    • It's def stair nose. Has the curved end on the outer side.fyoucher1
    • in other words, i'd think he'd have to cleat out from the back inside of that cavity to get something to hit to if it's gonna sit flushterry_cloth
  • terry_cloth0

    just google: laminate floor nosing trip hazard

    inspectors, contractors, bob fucking vila, everybody thinks this method is unsafe. it's your family, like i said, if you're happy i'm happy but just maybe your kid did you a favor ripping that cheap shit up

    • lolmonospaced
    • look at the direction the flooring is going here. this is the context in which expansion is relevant. your boards go perpendicular to the fake nosing, you don'tterry_cloth
    • need a gap for expansionterry_cloth
    • *facepalm. You don't understand how mdf/hdf expands/contracts versus real wood.ETM
    • do you really think the planks are going to heave and separate if they are perpendicular to what they are pressing up against. you tell me mr. mdfterry_cloth
    • i think the worst that will happen is you will eventually have an 1/8th of an inch gap between the edge of the flooring and the nosingterry_cloth
  • terry_cloth0

    that's about a quarter inch lip? that's crazy. someone is going to get badly hurt

    • What would you suggest?eryx
    • pulling it back off. ripping a clean line in the flooring underneath with a circ saw and making a flush transition to the flooringterry_cloth
    • i would use my tracksaw for the cut though, basically a circ saw that runs on a jigterry_cloth
    • It's floating floor there terry. How would you handle the expansion gap required with a flush fit?ETM
    • These types stair nosings are designed specifically with that overlap to allow the gap, just like a t-mould would.ETM
    • it's got gap to expand on the other 3 sides, if it separates a little bit over time between the nosing and the floor that's your trade off for not living with aterry_cloth
    • trip hazard right in front of a stair. small price to pay imoterry_cloth
    • also, the boards don't really expand length wise, this is more a case of cheap shit being installed cheaply than necessityterry_cloth
    • You're applying how real wood expands vs mdf/hdf cores which expands evenly.ETM
    • When a laminate floor is assembled it'll expand evenly in both directions, in proportion to it's dimensions.ETM
    • well it's not going to heave length wise now is itterry_cloth
  • nocomply0

    That diagram shows exactly what's going on. I don't deny that it's unsafe, but what would the alternative be?

    • There really isn't one with floating floors like laminate.ETM
    • When you redo it down the line, use real hardwood that is fastened to the sub-floor, then you can use proper, flush nosings/treads.ETM
    • i agree but in the mean time there are safe solutions that wouldn't look terrible and would function well enough. safety first guysterry_cloth
    • like i said, cut the ends of the boards into a nice straight line, cut down your riser, get a piece of hardwood nosing, rip it to the right length, drop that puterry_cloth
    • -ppy in and deal with any gaps that open up as they appearterry_cloth
    • "Deal with any gaps" how? You're solution is not viable for floating floors.ETM
    • Is the overlap nosing undesirable... yes. Your solutions, however, will only cause new issues.ETM
    • refer to the previous post. i explain why this is not an issueterry_cloth
    • You're simply wrong on how laminate expands and contracts. It's glued sawdust, not real wood grain. I come from a family of trades and probably laid a footballETM
    • field worth of this shit myself. Let alone engineered wood and both pre-finished and site finished hardwood.ETM
    • You seem to think mdf expands like real wood grain, more across the grain then the length. But you don't know what you are talking about. You assembled theETM
    • laminate planks into a square room, it'll expand and contract evenly in all 4 directions assuming a significant weight isn't pinning it down on one end.ETM
    • You're giving advice against the nature of the product, without even seeing or knowing the site conditions in an attempt to look knowledgable and you're givingETM
    • shit advice to a DIYer that could compromise his whole floor.ETM
    • It he is concerned about the trip hazard, he should get a local flooring pro to evaluate the actual conditions/options.ETM
    • you missed the point. the point is that the floating floor is not going to heave and bow if it's tight to a flush nosing perpendicularly. it may open up a littlterry_cloth
    • e when it eventually contracts but it won't lift up because of itterry_cloth
    • just because you have done something one way a million times doesn't mean you have a conceptual understanding sufficient to alter the procedure. think outside tterry_cloth
    • he box for a second. his floor would not heave and be ruined, you are being melodramatic and acting like the way you were taught is some kind of dogmatic cannonterry_cloth
    • neither or us has seen the site conditions but it's better to come up with a creative solution and ruin your cheap ass floor than leave a trip hazard. as far asterry_cloth
    • you guessing my motivations, don't go there mr. mdf, i did real carpentry with real wood so don't lecture meterry_cloth
    • *edit: potentially ruin your cheap ass floorterry_cloth
    • *facepalmETM
    • in your professional opinion can you tell me honestly that perpendicularly pressing against a tight fitting nosing will cause floor failure or just an eventualterry_cloth
    • 1/8th inch gapterry_cloth
    • If the short side locking mechanism of the planks is a 'drop to lock' style instead of 'angle to lock', you can have issues, even with the orientation ofETM
    • the boards you highlight. It may be less likely than failure along the long side, but it can happen, especially since you have no idea what the expansion spaceETM
    • is on the opposite side without seeing in person.ETM
    • You assume the floor will contract, saying an eventual gap. Depending on season, location and humidity, the floor could instead expand that 1/8 to 1/4 inch.ETM
    • I'm not hear defending the "quality" of laminate floors, just their realities.ETM
    • *hear = hereETM
    • fair enough. i'd take that over a 1?4 inch lip in front of my split level star, i can't imagine who would float a floor down an entire staircase, have you everterry_cloth
    • installed one of those, is that doneterry_cloth
    • Prefer to color match real wood treads, if possible. But when laminate is on a stairs, you use adhesive. You can't float that there. Death trap.ETM
    • I would think soterry_cloth
  • eryx0

    for sure more pics. I would put some more weight on the ends just to be safe. Good job! ( Also i fear that case might get too light)

    I think we were getting persnickety about everything but just did not want to see you make it worse by damaging anything.

    You'll be putting up crown molding before you know it.

    • it's not persnickety man, all your weight is on nosing, plus it doesn't sit flush with the flooring so potentially a trip hazard when going down stairsterry_cloth
    • this is not the kind of thing i would jury rigterry_cloth
    • discussing between PL400 and E6000 is more what I was thinking of, if it is a tripping hazard, that's different.eryx
  • nocomply0

    Some of the other flooring caps / baseboards / thresholds / nosings, or whatever you call them have been a little bit loose since we first moved into this place.

    I'm going to get some finishing nails and a nail punch to get them set solid before something like this happens again.

    But in the meantime, crises averted. My 17 month old tornado of a boy no longer has a death trap in his play area.

    More detailed pics below:

    • everything looks flush to me. Good joberyx
    • flush on the top sideterry_cloth
    • flush on the riser is only a trip hazard if gravity gets reversed and you are in danger of falling towards the ceiling derpterry_cloth
  • eryx0

    Also watch out for this when your nailing it back together if your going that root.

  • terry_cloth0

    Anyways, a regular hammer is all you need but it should be used in conjunction with a nail set, make sure you prefer I'll where ever you are going to nail with a hole smaller than your finish nail though, you don't want to split the stupid thing. With the nail set set the nails in about, I donno, a 16th inch below the surface of the threshold (assuming that's indeed what it is). If you have any extra flooring get out a saw or a sander and make you some sawdust, mix that sawdust with wood glue into a paste, smushing the paste into the cavity above the nail head, voila, nobody would ever be the wiser

  • aslip0

    Straighten the nails and then lightly hammer them out from the under side. Apply Liquid Nails down under board and then put back in place. You should be able to hammer the finish nails back in. If not, buy some more and hammer them in with a nail setter (about $6). Fill holes with color matching wood putty.

    Best of luck!

    • They are just finish nails, you will never be able to back them out, we aren't talking about flooring cleats hereterry_cloth
    • Or cut them, if hammering back out is not in skill set.aslip
    • sigh, this is why god invented nail puller pliers my frindterry_cloth
  • detritus1

    Get your kid to do it. Spend the rest of his life blaming for the shitty job he did.

    Parenting!

    • Shit jokes aside, this is a great thread - I can see more 'Parent-like' threads popping up as the years go on :)detritus
  • eryx0

    Also make sure you buy a concave nail set, punches look the same but are different and might slip off.


    • a punch and a nail set are completely different, all nail sets have that dimpleterry_cloth
    • but i see what you're saying, good pointterry_cloth
    • I know, just did not want him to buy a punch by mistake.eryx
  • kona0

    FYI. Typing this out must have triggered something manly deep within me. My beard has grown 5 inches in length and a boat anchor tattoo appeared on my chest. Radical.

    • Drink coffee much?nocomply
    • Or maybe whiskey?nocomply
    • Also, Dad game on point. You knew it would take a boy to be this purposefully destructive.nocomply
    • Yep to all of those. I have 3 boys so it's most likely the whiskey talking.kona
  • nocomply0

    @terry_cloth - Yeah the whole setup is more of less a lawsuit waiting to happen. My dad (a lawyer) suggested we put up a railing that separates the upper dining area from the sunken living room area, but that would just look hideous.

    The step down is a lot greater of a danger than the lip of the cap piece. And since all of the flooring is the same color it's easy for people to miss the step. It's happened before. When we have parties or large gatherings I cover the top of the entire cap piece with blue painters tape to make it more visible.

    Eventually my wife and I want to replace the flooring and raise the sunken living room, but considering the cost involved it's quite low on the list of priorities.

    • split levels are not considered unsafe, plenty of people have them, it was quite a fad in residential architecture not too long ago. trip hazards are a differenterry_cloth
    • -t issue. you have a large protuberance who's only function is to cover up shitty DIY workmanship on the finish edges of the flooringterry_cloth
    • not a worth while trade off imoterry_cloth
    • never mind that laminate hardwood flooring is packed with fucked up carcinogensterry_cloth
  • monospaced1

    paging terry_cloth