Finding developer = grey hair
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- NoFavorite
I can't for the life of me find a front end developer who writes great code and can also hold a conversation.
I don't want to out-source overseas or even state lines. I just want someone normal who has a design sense and can write solid code.
Help?
- benfal990
Give me your job. I will charge you 10,000$ will overseas the job for 2,500$ and make 7,500$ for doing nothing but surf the interwebs and lol here and there.
Ok?
- stewdio0
Or @benfal99 and I will split the job 50/50 for only 30,000 of your US dollars. I have excellent experience with Geocities.
- stewdio0
and AOL Hometown.
- Amicus0
Do they really need to be able to hold a conversation? I have 10,000 monkeys and time to spare.
- I think the monkeys might be able to hold a conversation better than some developers...Nathan_Adams
- slappy0
Front end coding is easy, should be heaps around, finding a good back end coder is hard!
Find a designer who knows how to write standards compliant code, fiddle with jquery and actionscript and you are good.
- I disagree. I think it's harder to find a front end dev because they need to have a design sense.NoFavorite
- dbloc0
What are you trying to code?
- Need someone who can write solid markup, css, and knows their way around javascript (not just using plugins) for various web dev jobs.NoFavorite
- NoFavorite0
I disagree. I think it's harder to find a front end dev because they need to have a design sense.
Back end development (PHP, Ruby) doesn't really change. Front end code is changing every day.
- akrok0
good luck.
- NoFavorite0
I guess they all work for Huge and R/GA now.
Wave farewell to the non-corporate front end developer :-(
- mg330
Maybe you should try this.
- stewdio0
To be serious for a moment, I think finding a "good" front-end coder may be more difficult than finding a good back-end coder. (Regardless of which job you think is more difficult.) If you have the chops to do both you get pushed into doing back-end work because it pays more, is a more efficient use of your time, and the problems are more interesting to solve. (For example "what's a nice conceptual model for this database" vs "why is this aspect of the layout not working in this supposedly standards-compliant browser?") And this is strange if you have a foot in both worlds—programming and design—because it means those two worlds become a little further separated for you each year. You're only going to meet so many people in your life who you debate with about what Tschichold's preferred programming language might have been based on the language's code punctuation and whitespace standards.
And unfortunately the way we've set up design markets and education systems doesn't encourage that kind of blended talent set. I mean... the project brief says you need an art director, a producer, a designer, and a programmer to accomplish what you're pitching to the client. It never says "we need four people who can each do all of the above (to varying degrees of course) and can be left to their own autonomy while brainstorming lest we dilute good ideas simply because three of the four don't have the background to grasp what the other is saying." (And does the client have the budget for four of those people anyway?)
This is what makes me wish I had a time machine so I could go work at SRI and Xerox PARC back in the day. A nicely funded shack far away enough from the parent company that mom and dad aren't constantly badgering with questions about immediate commercial applications, they're just sending checks. And you know what? Those guys invented the mouse, the graphic user interface, Arpanet, email, hypertext, video conferencing, document sharing, etc, etc. Ok, I admit that's an overly utopian view of how PARC operated but we've got to have dreams yea?
So yea... you just send me and benfal that check for 30,000,000 USD that we discussed above and we'll write your HTML. And then use that to fund a new research center with no goals and no clients. Just play space for inventing fun new things.
- jadrian_uk0
YOU are making things harder.relax
- showpony0
Dude, the chance that you're going to find a developer that has a good design sense is very unlikely... also, most the best programmers I know can't hold a conversation, and I think that that's fine.
Rather than look for a coder/designer, just look for a very anal coder who won't rest until the site matches the comp. If you have good designers, they should be providing explicit comps for everything anyway, so not sure why the coder needs to design as well. Sure, it'd be nice, but not really necessary if every team member is doing their job.
- Way to demonstrate exactly what I was talking about :'(stewdio
- Boz0
That's what crowd-sourcing, wordpress and similar will do for the market..
The reason you don't see good front-end coders is because everyone expects a websites built (front-end) in like 3 days and they expect to pay $500 for the whole thing.
Then, you are left with a ton of amateurs who only know how to modify a wordpress theme to an extent.
And it's gonna get worse.. I'm writing web apps that includes heavy thinking of how you properly use CSS/JS/HTML and hardware acceleration and JQuery and all that stuff that is all basically front-end. Good luck finding people who will do it properly..
As in everything, the incentive in improving ones skillset is money. And when you have a market that expects prices to match a 3rd world country, well then, you get what you get.
It's sad really.
- stewdio0
Doesn't everyone just use Facebook anyway?
- moldero0
"and can also hold a conversation" for what? conversations are for women and drunk people.
- mikotondria30
This is what happens when they introduce as3 and designers who enjoyed a bit of coding had to write ten lines to do simple things.
Just sayin'.
- vaxorcist0
As slightly burned out, mostly back-end coder, I can say that many of us actually are quite hard to find because we may be selective in projects we take.... many people don't quite get it that a front-end change often forces a HUGE back-end change, similar to asking a plumber to "just move the sink over here" may mean tearing out lots of walls to move plumbing....
We have a tendency to be optimistic and fearful at the same time about beginning new projects where we are scared to let expectations balloon while deadlines shrink at the same time....
That said, I've worked with some AMAZINGLY able software architects/coders who couldn't hold conversations with clients....
Oddly, much of the insanity in development is due to spec confusion resulting from account staff keeping the developers away from the clients... the businesspeople seem scared to let us out in public, but we need to actually understand things by talking to real clients/users, not just read second-hand notes from semi-understanding sales staff.... yes, we don't have to wear roller blades to the office with star wars t-shirts every day...
- Completely right about the plumbing bit.Jaline
- +10000000... i need to print this out and show to my bosssilentpost
- SoulFly0
I know a guy, very funny, awesome personality. He has great conversations, he is always the center of attention at parties and clubs. Knows the funniest jokes.
The only thing is he's in India... is that cool with you? I can give you their number. I know you didn't want leads that are overseas. But this guy, let me tell ya, he has really interesting conversations. I think he used to work for verizon customer support and got to talk a lot over the phone with people. His social skills are really impressive.
- stewdio0
@vaxorcist you are so correct about fuck ups coming from developers getting cock blocked from clients by accountants / producers / directors who have no idea what they're promising. Seen that happen too many times.