Intellectual Dark Web

Out of context: Reply #24

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  • Morning_star0

    @pr2... and everyone else

    I started off asking for alternative perspectives/views/opinions from the ones i've been absorbing lately, the majority of which are projected by the (yes, cringey and pretentiously named) IDW. I asked here at QBN because I can't find coherent and considered rebuttals of their myriad views, only name calling, lies and misrepresentations. It's important to me to understand all perspectives and this place, through all of it's faults, is usually pretty switched on, diverse and intelligent.

    I take your point about the my lack of contribution. Something I’ve been enjoying which attempts to bridge a gap between some IDW ideas and the left is a YouTube/Podcast broadcast by a group called Rebel Wisdom [https://www.rebelwisdom.co.uk... They include an ex producer from Channel 4 and one-time colleague of the infamous Cathy Newman. They’ve made a series of documentaries that try to unpack Petersons rise to fame and his debates with Sam Harris. They’ve not got a huge amount of content but it goes some way to providing a critical and alternative perspective.

    Help me out here, show me where the honest discussion is happening at the same depths and consideration that the IDW seem to take. It’s difficult to create a balanced perspective when I can only find shallow, inaccurate and reactionary content from the other side.

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    • You're asking for rebuttal of IDW, however IDW isn't really an ideological construct to be rebutted. The thing that loosely holds it together is 'format'.MrAbominable
    • Asking for a critique of Petersen seems to be a large part of what you're intrigued by. I'm sure he wouldn't take himself as the norm for the congregation.MrAbominable
    • You're right the IDW is a loose collection of fairly disperate folk without one ideology. But the cricism by the left of any of the members is alway the same.Morning_star
    • Specifically, lets start with intelligent rebuttal of Petersons and Harris's ideas regarding Marxism, The Wage Gap and Charles Murrays Bell Curve..Morning_star
    • totes. i'm sympathetic to your position on this. hope you're not taking my banter as opposition. there's room for dialogue and more than one pov in the worldMrAbominable
    • Why do you expect full rebuttals of IDW ideologies on QBN? It’s almost like you’re just challenging the community or complaining about something.monospaced
    • To a certain extent I am challenging the community. There are some mighty fine brains who visit here who’s views I respect but don’t agree with. I read...Morning_star
    • ... the opinions here and find them on the whole pretty measured. I was hoping for a little direction to where I might find a robust, considered apposing view.Morning_star
    • If it’s not an appropriate place to challenge these views then I’ve misjudged the community. Apologies.Morning_star
    • I see.monospaced
    • As you point out it's a loose collection of views. My meta-critique is that the focus on the PC left as the biggest threat is misplaced. There are real issuesyuekit
    • in the world. To name one, 20,000 people are estimated to die of hunger every day due to extreme poverty. Political correctness is very much a "first worldyuekit
    • problem" by comparison. So to spend all your time talking about that, especially at a time when people like Trump are in power, seems like a mistake.yuekit
    • Yuekit, That’s the funniest thing I’ve seen on here for some time.Morning_star
    • Hey you asked for open discussion and debate. Do you genuinely see political correctness and activists on college campuses as one of the biggestyuekit
    • issues of our time? Personally I think it's overblown, and especially misguided if that's the thing that leads people to align with conservatism.yuekit
    • If you think all this is, is belittling SJWs and College Campus politics (none of which I’m interested in) you know very little of what the IDW are about.Morning_star
    • Hmmm isn't that why people like Jordan Peterson and Bret Weinstein are famous in the first place though?yuekit
    • If it's not that, then what would you say is the unifying principle between all these people? What's the main point of disagreement with the mainstream "left"?yuekit
    • One of the unifying principles is this..Big questions can only be explored with open-minded, self-reflective, grounded discussions with those we disagree with.Morning_star
    • The recent debate between Peterson & Harris regarding Free Will is exactly one of those big questions.Morning_star
    • The issues the have with the Left and Universities (and i'm speculating) is that they won't engage, under any circumstances. When invited to discuss and...Morning_star
    • ...and explore these big questions the response has been to try and categories Harris et al as the far right or homophobic. Thus the negative reaction on campusMorning_star
    • There's a YouTube channel I enjoy called rationality rules, which has 4 or 5 videos deconstructing Peterson arguments simply from a logic/fallacy perspective.T-Dawg
    • I find them interesting because they examine ideas without getting caught in the emotion of political affiliation.T-Dawg
    • ^ Yeah there are actually a lot of good videos on YouTube debunking Peterson. Not necessarily from the left, but from people in the skeptic community.yuekit
    • Thanks T-Dwog. I'll have a look. Any recommendations Yuekit?Morning_star
    • Sorry T-Dawg (monday morning fingers are not dialled in yet)Morning_star
    • Hmmm... check out the debate Peterson did with Matt Dillahunty. I thought he did a pretty good job showing how Peterson's ideas about truth and religionyuekit
    • are a bit incoherent.
      https://www.youtube.…      yuekit
    • i've think i've seen that, i'm gonna give it another look, Thanks.Morning_star
    • it was a great talk, here's the version with better sound
      https://www.youtube.…      fadein11
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