Out of context: Reply #6347

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  • yuekit1

    A new analysis of genetic samples from China appears to link the pandemic’s origin to a specific animal...…

    • This may be the final nail in the coffin of the lab leak theory. I'm disappointed that you guys doubted me :)yuekit
    • The evidence by now strongly points to it spilling over to humans at the market from raccoon dogs, which is the #1 animal in the world used in the fur industry.yuekit
    • lab animals are the cutest :)utopian
    • Why blame scientists? It never made sense. Just a reboot of Climategate and other conspiracy theories.yuekit
    • Have you read the article Yuekit?

      "The findings don’t rule out the possibility that other animals may have been carrying SARS-CoV-2 at Huanan. ...
    • Raccoon dogs, if they were infected, may not even be the creatures who passed the pathogen on to us."Morning_star
    • In every paragraph or two the article goes to great lengths to say that this isn't, by any means, a smoking gun.Morning_star
    • Of course, but it's about looking at the overall evidence. At this point we'd be expected to believe a virus leaks from a lab and just incidentally ends up atyuekit
    • market selling the exact species of animals involved in the SARS-1 outbreak AND now we find out the animals were likely infected..yuekit
    • ...but we're meant to believe it didn't come from there? Give me a break hahayuekit
    • People are just desperate to keep this narrative of lab leak that they've bought into alive. But look at the actual evidence, does any of it support that? No.yuekit
    • I'm also slightly hurt Morning_star by your suggestion that I don't properly understand the article :) I've been following this topic for a long time...yuekit
    • And something that's quite funny is that the French scientist who made this discovery credited me at one point for helping point her in the right direction.yuekit
    • But this discovery, assuming it holds up, is very strong evidence of natural origin. Just because you can hypothetically imagine some deus ex machina series ofyuekit
    • events that get it from the lab to infecting animals at the market doesn't mean that's a likely possibility at all. Science is ultimately all about likelihood.yuekit
    • Yes, an animal DID start the pandemic. It's name? Anthony Fauci.zardoz
    • lolyuekit
    • "Science is ultimately about likelihood"...Nah, that's insurance and gambling ;) In all seriousness, you make it sound like a democratic process...Morning_star
    • It's a systematic methodology based on evidence. And, in this case the evidence isn't conclusive. I guess that the likelihood of the Wet Market origin may...Morning_star
    • the front running theory but Lab Leak is still in the race and can't be brushed aside.Morning_star
    • but trump said covid is a democratic hoax....neverscared
    • Like a raccoon dog with a bone. LolGnash
    • Some Chinese bloke fucked a raccoon?crazyprick
    • The report hasn't been released yet. The Chinese report from 2022 spoke about the animal swabs not containing COVID DNA.Jrdntnnr
    • This report is about the environmental swabs. In the NYT article, they say human DNA, COVID and that of animals (plural) was found in themJrdntnnr
    • 2001 I was in at a CL2 lab in central London just after a professor was reprimanded for walking around with a unsecured vial of antibiotic resistant botulinumJrdntnnr
    • People are dumbJrdntnnr
    • ^ exactlyGnash
    • Sure of course a lab accident can happen, but it’s just weird how people have ignored that the first SARS-2 cluster in the world was at an animal market..yuekit
    • Selling the exact same species that were found infected during the SARS-1 outbreak (raccoon dogs and civets)yuekit
    • @yuekit this still isn't strong evidence. The samples were environmental. The samples contained DNA of multiple animals and humans.Jrdntnnr
    • If I took samples in my house in March 2021, you'd find COVID, dog, cat, and human DNA. It's like taking that and saying it came from the cats.Jrdntnnr
    • Also, the report isn't out yet. Why are they taking it as evidence? Preprint? No. Peer review? Obviously not.Jrdntnnr
    • @yuekit Whilst the Wet Market was the epicentre of the outbreak, there is no evidence that it was the origin. As you’ve rightly..Morning_star
    • ...pointed out to me on several occasions, the definitive evidence showing what/where/how of the virus origin is so far circumstantial and speculative.Morning_star
    • So much for the ‘final nail in the coffin’Gnash
    • @Jrdntnnr actually there's more to it than that, a more detailed version was released…
    • They managed to reconstruct the genomes of individual animals to show exactly which subspecies were there, which could help trace the origin.yuekit
    • Also it's not as cut and dry as saying "there were people and animals at the market." In some cases the virus samples contain entirely animal DNA and no humanyuekit
    • Is it possible that civet cats and raccoon dogs are animals used for lab testing in Asia, given their (apparent),closeness to humans? (jumping species barrier)monNom
    • I mean, is China importing ferrets en-mass from North America for their serial passage experiments? or are they using something domestically available?monNom
    • It would be interesting to know if they also have domestically developed transgenic mice, and other animals. That could help explain the occurrence in humans.monNom
    • It's possible but it's also possible that people slaughtering thousands of animals imported from all over Asia got infected with a virus :)yuekit
    • And it’s also possible that the lab down the street that has the same as the virus is complicitGnash
    • The lab isn't down the street though, it's on the other side of the city.yuekit
    • Maybe this will help people understand...these are some actual pictures of the market.…
    • @yuekit What do you think those images show that strengthen your position? Every single positive test for Covid was environmental. No animals tested in the ..Morning_star
    • ...the market showed infection. None. There is no evidence to show the virus jumping from bats to humans. Yet, 10km away a lab was studying the Covid virus.Morning_star
    • I don't understand why you've nailed your colours to the mast on this. The evidence just isn't conclusive for either theory.Morning_star
    • What’s the name of that lab again?Gnash
    • You mean the Wuhan Institute of Virology? Cmon guys you don't even know the name of the lab, how are you so convinced about this?yuekit
    • What's happened is that these people in the lab leak movement like Matt Ridley and Alina Chan have succeeded in confusing people.yuekit
    • It’s a movement? You mean like Chinese propaganda ?Gnash
    • So Morning_star said earlier that the lab actually had this virus...that's not true but I can understand why you'd think that.yuekit
    • "No animals tested in the market showed infection. None." Again this is wrong...what happened is that China simply didn't release any information about theyuekit
    • animals at all and later claimed they were never sold there to begin with.yuekit
    • So it was really just the CCP censoring this information, and as a result people came up with these alternative theories.yuekit
    • There's never been any actual evidence at all pointing at the lab. There's a big difference between physical evidence like actual cases of COVID or positiveyuekit
    • samples -- which both exist at the market, and these are the first known cases in the world -- vs. an entirely theoretical possibility that gets repeated in theyuekit
    • media a bunch of times and that people want to believe in.yuekit

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