Dall-E, Midjourney, Stable Diffusion (etc) - who's playing, and with which?
Dall-E, Midjourney, Stable Diffusion (etc) - who's playing, and with which?
Out of context: Reply #729
- Started
- Last post
- 822 Responses
- HAL900124
Fuck anything presented as Art made by AI. For me it's like a game where the goal is to generate nice images, nothing more.
These images are enjoyable, yes, but I give 0 creative or artistic credits to its creators, the machine did the work. Mastering the 'prompt' is like learning a program or coding, nothing more.
- sure, okay.utopian
- Convince me otherwise if you dont agreeHAL9001
- It's true because mainstream A.I. sites/ tools don't allow even the slightest offensive/ provocative thing. And art should be provocative.NBQ00
- a bit too reductionist maybe? "Mastering the 'prompt' is like learning a program or coding, nothing more."imbecile
- learning a program / code is so subjective, which is where we see the talent emerge. therefore... logically... never mind, you don't get itimbecile
- talent of prompting? Yeah sure, but the result can't be seen as creative Art, no artist actually painted or drew or photographed anythingHAL9001
- Its generated Art by computers. The 'creator' just entered keywords.HAL9001
- Well I’m composing 4 minute songs that sound better than anything on the radio, ai writes the lyrics, composes the music and sings it in any style I choose_niko
- By the visual properties of it It’s interesting how quickly the basic AI generated aesthetic has become datedneverscared
- I barely do anything other than feed in shitty prompts. Am I a recording artist now?_niko
- Live by novelty die by novelty ...neverscared
- I suppose I’m not doing anything more or different than any producers done ever except I work with ai and not humans._niko
- I can even create ai generated holographic performers or an avatar to go on tour, the only thing is that groupies will be disappointed backstage or on the bus_niko
- "I'm composing"...but—are you? You're dropping some text in a prompt, clicking 'generate', sipping coffee and waiting.
composing=creating
prompting≠creatingPonyBoy - Let's look at it differently. You're 'ordering' something from an AI app - just like you'd order a coffee from Tim Hortons. You tell (prompt) the...PonyBoy
- Yeah “composing” is what I meant. I don’t know a b flat from a b real but I’m able to now be a world renown (TikTok) “recording artist”_niko
- ...little shit behind the counter that you want decaf with no cream... "I SAID NO CREAM YOU LITTLE FUCKER" (repeating yourself while prompting not necessary)...PonyBoy
- ... the point being you're telling the kid what to get you - you are 'prompting' him / her / it /that (if you will). You're not making the coffee yourself.PonyBoy
- The same goes with AI. You're 'asking' for something... or 'ordering' it and hoping it doesn't put cream in your coffee as 'prompted'.PonyBoy
- Sadly I don’t think listeners or fans care, we didnt care in the early 80s when hip hop djs were sampling old funk and disco songs, or when edm was made by cpus_niko
- Sampling is a creative 'cut and paste' that creates something new... but it's you sequencing it, adjusting it—getting it just right. AI just does it for you.PonyBoy
- Or when all the modern fabricated shit came out, someone else writes, produces, composes, plays instruments, the artist just has to dance around like an
Idiot_niko - So yeah it’s not art and it’s not music and it’s not creative... but will the masses care?_niko
- yeaaah... I hear you on the 'idiot dancing around' shit but you also described people in the background that still 'create' (compose etc).PonyBoy
- "... but will the masses care?"
Not sure... let me prompt AI for the answer. :)PonyBoy - Adapt, evolve or go extinct.utopian
- Masses will probably pay lots of $ for Ai generated art and AI art will probably take all the stage very soon, sadly.HAL9001
- But I also think real art will probably gain more value, because its real.HAL9001
- At the same time, anything 'Art' has always been subject to debate, rightHAL9001
- Yeah Remember when Warhol caught flack for not actually producing the work himself? Didn’t really hurt him or his legacy. This could be like that but to the nth_niko
- I try to convince my kids that the Beatles were great because they were singer songwriters, did everything themselves and were brilliant. You think they give a_niko
- ...shit? Give them drake any day. Fml.
We need things faster and in more abundance, to time for craft or to hone our skills. The ends justify the means._niko - As artists we all appreciate and respect hard work and suffering for a craft. But how many of us can afford that hand- made Japanese chef knife_niko
- Painstakingly created by an old master when that Chinese piece of shit knock off is 1/4 as good at 1/20 price?_niko
- not all prompts are created equal. move this to "signs your getting old"imbecile
- Of course learn it... use it... it's an amazing tool. The point is though that you're not 'creating' - you're 'prompting' and let something create for you.PonyBoy
- Learning to write effective prompts is a cakewalk that can be understood in mere minutes. <3 It's not even comparable to 'creating'...PonyBoy
- Creating = doing the work
Prompting = placing an orderPonyBoy - Agree. But also creating = underpaid and under appreciated designer
Prompting = overpaid and talentless boss_niko - So I guess why not become both now that it’s possible?_niko
- Yeah... learn and use the -tools-. Just be careful not to have that "I'm a creator" Ralphie Wiggum moment in front of someone who knows better. <3PonyBoy
- Creating = learning, copying, output
Prompting = learning, copying, output
Everything is a Remix
https://www.youtube.…utopian - Art = Remix
Music = Remix
Design = Remix
Cinema = Remixutopian - Why Ego Kills Creativity
https://www.creative…utopian - By using prompts, everyone is teaching AI while slowly making human craft obsolete.instrmntl
- Make me a painting then if its as easy as remixing.HAL9001
- To achieve good looking painting you need years of practice and some creative talent to make something original.HAL9001
- I can make amazing ''art'' with AI this evening. Let me watch a couple Youtube explaining how to write good prompts.HAL9001
- I 100% agree with PonyBoy when he say Creating = doing the work
Prompting = placing an orderHAL9001 - if you think you 'created' something that you typed into a computer prompt then you might want to check your own ego (referring to 'topes article)PonyBoy
- "Creative genius is the art of authentic self-expression. The further you are away from your true self the weaker your creativity becomes."PonyBoy
- ^That's from that same article...
Happy 'authentic' prompting, everyone!!PonyBoy - AI art has little more, if any, value over Kmart or IKEA art posters.ephix
- media design is become more worthless and it will get even more about power structures than ever before.... that why most designer will wind up in healthcareneverscared
- jobs or similar jobs...neverscared
- How much difference in effort is there between prompting an image and taking a photograph?yuekit
- I’m seeing it more and more in the wild. Mostly replacing stock images and illustrations in ads and on sites_niko
- @yuekit, to take a photograph with the quality of lighting and composition AI is generating, you need years of practice and dedicationHAL9001
- Depends on the shoot, yuekit. Products need a studio, people need proper lighting / gear. Nature or architectural shots are each unique to themselves...PonyBoy
- ...each shoot needing the appropriate lense too. You can spend a full day setting up just to get a few shots. The 'difference in effort' can be extensive.PonyBoy
- and you need experience and practiceHAL9001
- But AI also potentially requires a lot of research and experimentation to actually get the results you want.yuekit
- And you could be training your own AI model or using AI as part of a larger creative process like PhanLo has demonstrated here.yuekit
- Versus some idiot who just shows up with their iPhone and snaps a picture "I'm a photographer" :)yuekit
- Anyway I do get the point you guys are making but I think it's ultimately about how unique and artistic the end result is, not the tool itself.yuekit
- Even after the 'research and experimentation' you're still just 'placing an order'. You're not physically implementing/ creating—you're merely typing keywords.PonyBoy
- A 'unique and artistic' result is presented to you... it is not created by you. Again, it's like ordering a cup of coffee...PonyBoy
- You know what coffee you want, how you want it made, what size, what you want in it etc... but you don't make it—You have nothing to do w/the 'creation' of it.PonyBoy
- "talent of prompting?" yes, writing is a talent that humans have. not all skinemax porn is created equalimbecile
- If we're talking about just rendering a stock Midjourney image then I agree it's difficult to call that your own artwork. But I think there's a spectrumyuekit
- where depending on the scope of the project and how much effort and individuality you put into the work, it can be considered art.yuekit
- Because art is not only about implementation, it's also about the vision and ideas behind it.yuekit
- I understand the point you're making, yk... like a CD placing an order w/their AD / designers—they have their vision while others execute (andy warhol style)...PonyBoy
- ... but usually said CD (or Warhol) could execute their vision w/out help.
I admit I've met some 'visionary' CD's that couldn't execute for shit tho. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯PonyBoy - I was envisioning some version where you didn't just prompt an image but were involved to a greater degree. For instance I noticed some of the images onyuekit
- YouWorkForThem now say "created with AI" but it's still the same style you'd expect from the people behind the site. I'm assuming they're not just crankingyuekit
- these out using a tool like Midjourney but may have trained a model on their own work.yuekit
- Have none of you naysayers noticed what PhanLo's been up to, using his own designs and images as inputs to 'prompt' content that's more his own?Nairn
- “using his own designs and images”
<3PonyBoy - Yes "whatabout PhanLo"...that's what I was saying too.yuekit
- Ah, qbners, being deliberately obtuse to scratch out the belief they're somehow making a point since 2001.Nairn
- Who's 'naysaying'? All I've pointed out is that AI is a tool. If you're just feeding text to a prompt you are not 'creating' - you are 'ordering'.PonyBoy
- I admit I'm openly SHITTING on people calling themselves 'creators' who type shit into a prompt. Phanlo is using his own art - Ai is a 'tool' to him.PonyBoy