One Punk Under God
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- gramme0
It's not a tolerant idea if the result of non-conformity is perpetual torment in hell.
...not very punk-rock either.
Mimio
(Dec 21 06, 13:19)Jesus was not much of a conformist, actually. He went so far as to get killed for things things he said & did. He drove merchants out of the temple (read: he flipped out on them), he called the Pharisees (the religious leaders of the day) a 'brood of vipers', and when Herod asked if he was the King of the Jews, Jesus just stood there stonefaced because he knew Herod wold never buy it.
- gramme0
...and it's not conformity, it's freedom. The real kind, not the 21st-century veiled slavery we have concocted. What most people call 'freedom', i.e., doing as one sees fit, following your heart, putting yourself first, etc. etc., actually is a form of slavery: people who think that way cannot possibly see outside of their own limited paradigm. And I think even the most flagrant poster-children of postmodernism would say that man is limited and flawed. So, I'd rather not be stuck with myself. I'd rather believe in something that has proven through the ages to be much, much bigger than me. If I'm to be trusted for the well-being of my own soul, then shoot me now.
- mrdobolina0
//you are not being tolerant of my lifestyle gramme.
- Mimio0
"So, I'd rather not be stuck with myself. I'd rather believe in something that has proven through the ages to be much, much bigger than me. If I'm to be trusted for the well-being of my own soul, then shoot me now."
That sounds very dire and unnecessary to me.
- gramme0
//you are not being tolerant of my lifestyle gramme.
mrdobolina
(Dec 21 06, 13:41)It's only the blinding shine off your chrome pate that I hate. You know, hate the shine, love the shiner.
//
- mpfree0
//you are not being tolerant of my lifestyle gramme.
mrdobolina
(Dec 21 06, 13:41)back to the original point of this thread. Jay Bakker is very tolerant of Gays. etc. and their lifestyles, doesn't necessarily agree with all of them, but says that God still loves them, which most Christians believe.
- gramme0
That sounds very dire and unnecessary to me.
Mimio
(Dec 21 06, 13:42)Such is the way of the world, my friend. Yet I find great freedom in that knowledge.
- skelly0
The burden of proof lies with the believer, that's why it's a false dilemma. The believer imposes that story.
Mimio
(Dec 21 06, 13:03)no. everyone knows neither side can be proven so there's no burden of proof on anybody.
and neither side inherently imposes their story any more or less than the other. (key word: inherently - extremist people choose to impose all the time)
- Mimio0
That's just no true skelly. If you put forth an idea and claim it is fact, then the burden of proof lies the person proposition. In contrast, I'm an agnostic. I'm not putting forth ideas or beliefs in this respect.
- skelly0
I just disagree with the whole burden of proof thing.
I'm as suspicious of people that try to prove the existence of God as I am of people who try to disprove his existence.
That's why I think it's silly when people get so heated over it. You will NEVER know for sure, at least not until you die, so why argue over proof that isn't there.
Agnostic, Atheist or Christian -- in the end it all amounts to faith.
- mrdobolina0
skelly, what you just said is the reason why america's laws should not be dictated by it.
- Mimio0
Skelly, I think you're thinking of this as an either/or situation. Which is why I was talking about "false dilemmas" in earlier posts.
- skelly0
Agnostic, Atheist or Christian -- in the end it all amounts to faith.
skelly
(Dec 21 06, 13:49)actually remove agnostic from that last bit.
Mimio, I hear ya.
I think saying definitively there's no God is putting for just as much an idea as saying there is.
- mrdobolina0
what percentage of US population believes in UFO's and ghosts, Im curious.
- morilla0
i do., i've seen them. I dont sleep anymore.
- gramme0
Everyone has faith in something, whether it's God, Buddha, the absence of a god or any god (Atheism, which is often just another word for secular humanism)...or themselves. We all worship, it's one of the things that separates us from the animals. The need for worship is as deeply ingrained in our psyche as anything else. Anyone who denies the need for worship is walking around blind in the daylight, regardless of what faith you cleave to.
- Mimio0
Sure Gramme,
The difference is we're talking about beliefs that are not tolerant of other beliefs or ideas. For instance there's nothing really wrong with saying "I believe in God" that's not an intolerant claim. If you say "I believe in God and if you don't believe in him too you're going to hell" that's a whole nother story.
- mpfree0
what percentage of US population believes in UFO's and ghosts, Im curious.
mrdobolina
(Dec 21 06, 13:54)not 75%
- Mimio0
lol. Probably like 40-50%
- mpfree0
lol. Probably like 40-50%
Mimio
(Dec 21 06, 14:32)hahha, that might be high, but I would laugh my ass off if it were true.
The population of the west?