spore vs jesus
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- teleos0
I'd be interested in hearing what cold hard "facts" have revealed the opposite of what I think and believe. Especially when the evidence screams of purposive design through virtually all facets of biology and cosmology and physics. The data testifies of a creator.
- teleos0
and I doubt that Newton, Pascal and Kelvin, all scientists who believed in a Creator, were intellectual midgets.
- designbot0
I love how most people in here love to slam Christianity. It's one thing to disagree (that's fine), and it's entirely different to post a bunch of dogmatic claims, w/o giving any evidence to support your points.
Please explain how something like the big bang/evolution can produce such perfect order, w/o any intervention from an outside source. Darwin looked at the simple cell and saw it as a blob of jelly, with no technology to see beyond that..now we can see that the "simple cell" really isn't so simple. Break life down to it's most basic elements and there is still perfect order. Chance and evolution can not produce such order.
- TheBlueOne0
"Chance and evolution can not produce such order. "
is a statement of belief not facts. Please stick to the facts.
- Also, please define "perfect order".TheBlueOne
- Faith in God is what it isredant
- TBO, with all do respect, look around...do you not see amazing order in the universe?designbot
- its more beautiful NOT simply explaining it with "god did it, god did it!"spifflink
- Chance has NOTHING to do with evolution. Please understand the topic before you attempt to discredit it.
Groks
- teleos0
Darwinism was born out of an intellectual fad. There was a lot of pressure in the "God Is Dead" enlightenment era to produce a purely naturalist explanation for all biological origin and diversity. Unfortunately for it's adherents, science continued onward and new data has been collected. We now know that a single cell is the most sophisticated nano technology in the world.
- From our perspective. Clearly we're a product of that biology.Mimio
- Certainly. We can only observe the evidence we have and make a logical inference.teleos
- oh the ironyerikjonsson
- TheBlueOne0
"Darwinism was born out of an intellectual fad."
Please cite sources other than right-wing christianist authors of the last decade of the accuracy of this statement.
- ukit0
What I am saying is, I see an attempt, for the most part, of people trying to cherrypick science to validate their pre existing (mostly Western, anglo, Christian) religious beliefs. Maybe you two can tell me honestly that you came to your religion through the science that "supports" it, but I don't think that's true for the majority of creationists. Instead, I think they are trying to twist the science to prop up their pre existing convictions, which they obviously have a deep emotional bias towards. It's exactly the opposite of how science should work.
- designbot0
TBO,
If you threw a box of Alphabits cereal up in there air, what do you suppose the chances would be that the letters would fall in place to produce and spell out the constitution?
This is an example of "chance" producing order, which "can not" be the case to any thinking human being. So perhaps you are correct in saying it's "a statement of belief", but apply this to a similar scenario and it's common sense.
- Just shows how little you know of scientific literature on the nature of order.TheBlueOne
- Ok, you made a claim, now back it up.designbot
- since when are billions of years of evolution chance? its a trial and error process in wich all life finds a way to grow. like the dandelion breaks the asphalterikjonsson
- if you do enough times, it will happen. especially if its being done parallel across multiple universe inspifflink
- different conditions, some hostile to life, some favorable.spifflink
- if u threw enough cereal in the air over millions of years and kept the ones that spelled outBrokenAC
- somethin, then yes, that would make for an interesting read!!
feel me?BrokenAC
- redant0
its scary to think that there is no God.
- Why?ukit
- if you really feel the need to be someones pet there are alot of special clubs in germany.erikjonsson
- weird!!redant
- well i love Godredant
- I think it's scarier to imagine there IS a G-d. For a start - which one? Secondly - what the fuck is Her motivation?Nairn
- 21st century and still this backward shitmigy
- erikjonsson0
i think creationalism is the funniest shit coming out of this country in a long time. its such great comedy that these people stupidity themselves by ignoring everything around them. its one thing to clung to some ancient symbolics, point of life or alike but to do it to something thats preceded by existing buildings, religions and manifests. not to mention that there are 5 billion species of plants, animals and insects there that in themselves act as proof of evolution and still keeps evolving right in front of our eyes. it really takes a lot of mid-west boredom and inbreeding to give birth to such displays of self humiliation.
- ukit0
All due respect, designbot, I think you are looking at it the wrong way. The world appears to be ordered because we are adapted to our immediate surroundings. The same way, if I push my hand into the sand, it takes shape around it.
- designbot0
^ Once again dogmatic claims. Why is "creationalism is the funniest shit coming out of this country"?
And what "country" are you referring to?
- @ erikjonsson.designbot
- the usaerikjonsson
- Creationism and Christianity can be found throughout the world.designbot
- teleos0
ukit - Science is based on presuppositions about how the universe and our world works. Ultimately, everything is faith based. We assume that certain laws exist which create a logical framework which we test within. Everyone has philosophical presuppositions which drive what they do. It is a matter of Epistemology, at the end of the day. Now the challenge is for you to demonstrate what evidence is being abused to support the assertion that there is a purposive creator.
- mikotondria30
A great deal of complexity of both form and functions can be produced from a few very simple rules and constants...
It would crush creationists if the existence of the universe and ultimately themselves could be described simply.
Oh, and the world being created in 6 days is a demonstrably false, and something that 'progressive creationists' have become 'progressive' about. "Well, it doenst LITERALLY mean 6 days.".
Uh, that's not what you were fucking saying last week.
"Women weren't LITERALLY created from taking one of man's ribs"..
Umm...thats what you were saying last week/year/century/epoch...
Bollocks.
You believe that science is out to destroy the mystery and beauty of the world and ultimately disprove everything you believe about this god character that you hide behind instead of facing up to the realities of who you are - an intelligent, cruel and curious creature, mostly animal, largely primitive, who lives a brief, often miserable, often wonderous few spins round and average star in an average part of an average galaxy, in an incomprehensibly vast universe that is incomprehensibly old and complex.
It is our knowledge that we know so much, but that it is so so insignificant in the face of everything else that we postulate has happened or exists that causes the appearance of the void in our self-image and that we paste over with concepts such as your biblical god.
Face it, we're nothing, but we're everything.
At least understand what it is you're trying to understand, being intellectually dishonest about the question only keeps YOU from any hope of reaching an answer.- The rules and constants are established by intelligence. This is not hard to grasp.teleos
- The numbers are cold, blind and dead, that's just math you're seeing there.mikotondria3
- I wish I'd read the thread a bit more thoroughly before jumping in. I'd just copy and paste this, many times over.Nairn
- Nicely put, Miko.
How're the lids these days?Nairn
- designbot0
"At least understand what it is you're trying to understand, being intellectually dishonest about the question only keeps YOU from any hope of reaching an answer"
With all do respect, I think you should read this quote and apply it to your own life as well.
- All DO respect ?
Please use the adult spelling of 'due' in all future flippant responses.mikotondria3 - he is. creationist are simply fitting their preconceived answers into this framework.spifflink
- *due....come on :)designbot
- Thank you :)mikotondria3
- :)designbot
- All DO respect ?
- teleos0
erik: You seem a bit uninformed or perhaps misinformed on this topic... Nobody denies that "evolution" in the broad sense of the term, happens. Things change and have changed. The burning question is: What is the mechanism for change? Countless repeated experimentation has demonstrated that Darwinian mechanisms are lacking to say the least when it comes to creative change. Such blind mechanisms can only achieve trivial adaptive change within existing species and the information is only being shuffled. There is no net increase of information. Experiments with Drosophila and Malaria have made this clear.
- competitionspifflink
- information is the opposite of order..perfect or otherwise.
Only perfection survives and reproduces.mikotondria3 - that makes no sense. Read some information theory as it relates to biology.teleos
- your note is the perfect response to your post.mikotondria3
- TheBlueOne0
Silly. You guys have nothing to do with Jesus and everything to do with Fundamentalism. Fundamentalism is not specific to Christianity, but rather an unsophisticated, simplistic approach to reality, usually encountered by those who fear the loss of order in the face of change. Unfortunately change is the one immutable fact of reality and existence.
Even now, Islamic Fundamentalists are stoning and burning people over similar "transgressions" and in India Hindu Fundamentalists are combining science with Vedic scriptures. All of them will insist their "holy and divine lineage" is correct. Whatever. You can't survive without keeping your head bowed and glancing at a past you can never attain and can never return which you seem to think is something we have, as a species, "fallen from". In your world view there is no future. Only return and revelation. Humanity can never advance, can never become greater or better than we were the day before. You utilize passive and systemic violence to keep things exactly as they were forever. You strain to hold the world together for your benefit and the benefit of your broken psyche. This is Fundamentalism purely and has little or nothing to do with the true spiritual nature of Christianity, Islam or Hinduism.
You use christianity and Jesus for your own small purely human needs.
I have yet to see teleos contribute to any thread about the million other important issues in Christianity - peace, charity, love - all things clearly mentioned by Jesus in the NT
It's all about dinosaurs, dna, evolution - which are terms all missing form my NT. You're a joke.
- You are implying a lot of things here, that are based on your opinion.designbot
- *rapturous applause*mikotondria3
- loldesignbot
- Fundamentalism is a chameleon. It all depends on what the fundamentals are.teleos