Canon 5D v 7D
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- quack0
i just want to say mind all my swearing, this is one of my favorite threads. there are several other threads like it on the internet that go into deeper detail regarding CoC, pixel density, as has been referred to and the Nikon D2X which can shoot in both full and crop mode which would be great for this dicussument ;)
i love arguing in one thread and agreeing in the other, been a long time since i've had this kinda fun here :D specifically you bta :P
- the only time anyone has behaved in such a love/hate manner with me before was a girl named valerie in 6th gradebigtrickagain
- she totally had a crush on me.bigtrickagain
- and what other thread are you referring to... the blog thread?bigtrickagain
- any other thread we usually laugh or seem top agree on most thingsquack
- bigtrickagain0
oh quack. you are so wrong and everyone else is so provably right, but you can't admit it even when citing the same facts as everyone else. i may not have 43 years of experience like ted, and as a photographer i'd say i have only ~3 years of pro experience (so less than your "experience"), but what everyone else says is true - bigger camera = shallower depth of field, from my own experience and from scientific basis. kindly start thinking coherently and rationally, or i shall i have to paste the child-camel internet argument pic in this thread.
you poor thing.
- Beautiful work on your site bigtrickagaintedvandell
- thanks (:bigtrickagain
- pr20
quack, how much more clearer i have to be? I show you the picks and you still don't get it?????
- http://www.qbn.com/t…bigtrickagain
- read the notes on your pics dipshitquack
- sequoia0
regardless if quack is right or wrong the info that blog post is incomplete and needs proper examples to back up the claims.
- moogchild0
For fucks sake, just shoot some fucking pictures.
- idiots0
wow
- Jurre0
I was amazed that Lucasfilm uses the 5D mark II as a B camera already to intercut with the Sony F35 (used to shoot Star wars with: 150,000 dollars). It's quite a revolution, a 2,000 dollar game-changer :-)
They say on a big screen the images are indistinguishable.
- quack0
had access to Canon 5D (2.0.3) and 7D (1.0.9) so I decided to do some test. This test doesn’t have any images so in some places you simply have to take my word for it.
IMAGE
5D (full sensor size) – even though it has larger sensor I find it only marginally more light sensitive.7D (1.6 crop sensor) – when set to lower contrast in picture styles the image looks exactly the same as 5D.
7D’s crop might not sound that significant but it does when you try to work with extreme lenses (such as wideangle lenses). My Tokina 11-16 even at 11mm on 7D wasn’t as wide as 16mm on 5D.Both cameras show significant amount of artifacts when you record a wide vista with everything in focus.
FOCUS
5D – even with version 2.0.3 HDMI still outputs only SD signal thus you can’t focus using external monitor in record mode (no run&gun capability).7D – HDMI outpust 720p (or something that looks like it) not uper sharp but definitley better then 5D and from my test using HDMI monitor totaly acceptabe for focus.
AUDIO
5D – manual audio, so you can get crisp audio using external pre-amp adapters such as JuicedLink7D – auto audio... you get all the pluses and minuses of auto, plus because you have no manual control you can’t use external pre-amps thus you have to relay on in-camera circuitry = crap audio.
WINNERS (based on my experience of shooting those):
NARRATIVE (lots of visuals)
7D as it allows to focus with HDMI monitorNARRATIVE (lots of dialogue)
5D as dialogue is usually static so with decent focus puller you can get sharp image and great audio (with 7D recording to external device is an option but there might be sound drifting issues).MUSIC VIDEO
7D as it allows on the fly focus. Unless you do some very specific visually oriented work such as such extreme lens effects with fisheyes as then the effect is more pronounced with 5D.DOCS (general)
Neither: 7D allows on the fly focus but the audio is crap while 5D has crisp audio but so what if the shots might be potentially out of focus.DOCS (sit down interviews)
5D as with sit down interviews there is usually very little focus shift and the audio you will get (if used with a pream such as JuicedLink) will be crisp.DOCS (run and gun)
Neither, or potentially 7D as it allows to focus on the fly (with HDMI monitor), but the audio is OK at best.COMMERCIALS
Either one as with commercials spots you usually get a focus puller to take care of the focus and the soundman that records to external device for sound back up anyway.
- tedvandell0
for more information try Planet5D.com, Cinema5D.com PhiliipBloom.co.uk
Try using an LCD loupe to achieve fine focus on either of these cameras without an external monitor while in LiveView mode.
The 5D gives you much greater depth of field (bokah).
5D audio is quite good, but should still probably use an external device like a Zoom H4n to get even better sound or a Sound Devices 522.- And the 21 megapix photos are beautiful!tedvandell
- You HAVE to use a device with a pre-amp.pr2
- True I am also using the JuicedLink preamptedvandell
- vaxorcist0
Nice test, thanks!
How is the rolling shutter on a horizontal pan or slow moving tracking shot? Is it about the same on each? I'm trying to figure out how much camera movement I can get away with on an upcoming music video shoot... We have a 5D ,ark II
- pr20
I can't comprehend that even with pictures there are some people who still don't get it... So here is a clear, I hope, explanation:
If i put 70mm lens on 5D and 70mm on 7D i'll get the same circles of blurriness within the frame:
But as you can see with 7D i'll see significantly less. Because of the cropped sensor, to get the same exact frame with 7D as with 5D, i would have to use 43mm lens on 7D to see what 70mm lens is seeing on 5D.
So if you compare the blurry circles of 5D with 70mm lens:
and 7D with 43mm lens (the focal length that matches the 5D's 70mm):
You can clearly see that the blurry circles are larger with 5D then 7D... Thus 5D has shallower DOF.
- pr20
Now can you make the blurry circles with 7D as large as 5D? - Yes, you would have to move the camera further back, but let say if there was a wall behind you and you couldn't... Then you would have to be stuck with 7D's lesser DOF.
- pr20
It's actually not the case as the LCD is barelly SD, so even with a magnifier you are still using SD monitor to focus and if you ever worked with SD monitor and HD footage you will know that it's not enough for critical focus.
Lenses, it's the other way around - because 7D has smaller sensor then you can mount more lenses then on 5D.
- quack0
tedvandell, your information is misinformation as in it is incorrect and misguided
5d can not provide more bokeh than the 7d, bokeh, the result of shallow depth of field is a result of lens aperture. you may be referring to vignette, the darkened edges, as the 5d is a full frame sensor compared to the 7d which is a crop, therefore reducing the natural vignette of low aperture settings
- actually Ted is right about that.pr2
- actually he's wrongquack
- therefore, so are youquack
- DOP is directly proportional to the sensor/surface size - small sensor = large DOF, large sensor = small DOFpr2
- how stupid are you?quack
- apparently he is both better informed and nicer to talk to than quack.tedvandell
- ted is right and quack is wrong.bigtrickagain
- quack you're an idiot.inteliboy
- hans_glib0
omg, wtf, ffs, etc
it's the lens that makes the difference not the camera...
a wide angle lens has a greater depth of field than a telephoto lens.
so naturally if you use a wider angle lens on the 7D to get the same crop, more of the image will be in focus than the 70mm on the 5D. But that's the lens, not the camera creating this. As you say yourself, the DOF of the 70mm lens is the same when mounted on the 7D or the 5D, but the FOV is reduced on the 7D.
So it's ridiculous to say that the 7D has greater DOF. It has a smaller sensor, so requires wider lenses to achieve the same field of view, and it's these wider lenses that give a greater DOF. The camera itself is just a sensor plane.
- vaxorcist0
They can both take the same lenses, but wide lenses are wider on 5D.
a 20mm prime on 5D is nicely wide, it's only a bit wider than normal on a 7D.
Shooting wide angle on a crop frame camera is odd...
- pr20
I give you, if you don't understand this simple concept then go ahead, live your life believing that the world is flat.
- tedvandell0
Seems like a pretty impressive list of professionals are achieving fine focus with either the LCD loupe or external monitor for these.
http://www.hurlbutvisuals.com
House season finale shot with all 5Ds
Also used extensively on last season of 24
check out Phillip Bloom and Vincent Laforet
- tedvandell0
Cool to see this topic making it's way onto QBN
