Costs/charging
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- johnnnnyh
Completed a photography assignment for client. We agreed a (low) daily rate as it was friends of friends.
Is it considered wrong to charge for incidentals, especially with photography? I'm thinking travel costs, the time spent downloading the images (after the sessions), background paper (bought especially for client but will be used again), DVDs burnt of images, postage etc. Does this seem fair or a bit picky in terms of invoiced items.
Anyone any experience or thoughts on this?
- bulletfactory0
We agreed a (low) daily rate
- YOU MUST charge for incidentals, otherwise you go broke.... or you FTP rather than burn,etc..vaxorcist
- d_rek0
Well, did you discuss charging for those items? Seems a bit dishonest to charge them for those things without having mentioned them before.
I understand why you would want to just that maybe next time you want to be more upfront about what you're charging for.
- JSK0
You should of considered that when you agreed on a price.
Agreement should of included Rate + Travel + incidentals etc
- johnnnnyh0
Yes, exactly, but on top of a daily rate would it be wrong to add costs? Or is the expectation that all the costs get covered in the (low) daily rate?
- kalkal0
It would be wrong to add any costs that you didn't already agree to.
- d_rek0
If you didn't discuss the costs with your client then they're probably assuming your daily rate covers all of your / their needs.
Short answer: It's not *wrong* but it's certainly not the smartest way to do business.
- bjladams0
i try to avoid working for friends, neighbors, real estate agents and friends of friends- no matter what, someone gets it
- TheBlueOne0
So, I guess this tale will be turning up at http://clientsfromhell.net/ by next week then?
- kalkal0
"hey about that money you owed me. well, we did agree to x amount but I'm afraid I'm now charging y amount. Come on, cough it up"
- johnnnnyh0
To be fair to me, this was a casual chat over the phone. They were sounding out costs and I gave them an idea of what I charge and but indicated that if the job were interesting I could charge a "mate's rate". There was no formal agreement although I'm happy to accept the low daily rate but since it's low I think it's harder to cover the incidental costs. I'm just checking on the feeling of this - no invoice raised yet!
- 4040
If you agreed to a low daily rate, then that applies to everything.
- johnnnnyh0
Agreement up front is tricky here - location was not decided until after discussion of daily rate, amount of shots (post production work / DVDs etc) was unknown until the day(s). Similarly background requirement didn't rear it's head till later.
I'm just trying to get a sense of right or wrong. If my garage fixes my car but the parts cost more than they expected I don't expect them to pay for them.- Only 12 posts till we resort to car analogies *roll eyes*PIZZA
- johnnnnyh0
I do think daily rate in relation to (location) photography is probably unlikely to include travel costs - is that an unreasonable assumption. When I have commissioned photography travel is usually charged extra.
- 4040
I think it really depends of how things changed.
1. If you traveled 100+ miles and the client never told you about the distance then I would say you can ask for more money.
2. If you burned 300+ dvds and it took a week and a half then you should ask for more money.
BUT if you only traveled 20 miles and burned 2 dvds I would say you need to stick with the daily rate everyone agreed upon.
- johnnnnyh0
OK well travelled about 120 miles return - so I think I will charge for that but probably a nominal fee.
Burnt 3 DVDs so won't charge.
I also used £30 worth of batteries on flash gear (long day location shoot with no mains) etc. is it unreasonable to claim that cost?
- d_rek0
Why wouldn't you just tell them upfront?
"Ok, my daily rate is X amount, since you're a friend i'll offer you a discounted rate but i'll still have to charge you for practical / incidental costs such as travel, materials, etc. Is that OK with you?"
Ultimately it's your business, reputation and relationship with friends on the line. If you can find a way to charge for the incidentals without damaging any of those things then go for it.
- johnnnnyh0
Well upfront was (as I understood it) a fact finding conversation. I wasn't even sure that they would use me so I just gave them a daily rate as a quick guide. We were discussing other things at the time. The incidental, travel costs etc only really have become apparent since I've added them up against a low daily rate.
There are other reasons why I took the work on - so it's not all financial. The problem is that when everything is added up it's less easy to hide the extra costs when your margins have been cut by a low rate. I know it's my mistake in the sense that a higher daily rate would have covered things comfortably, but that's not where I'm at.
- PIZZA0
"but since it's low I think it's harder to cover the incidental costs."
Maybe you should have charged a higher rate then...Seriously never work with friends on paid work, not worth the stress as this thread shows.
- JSK0
Pick up the phone and tell him that you need to charge extras
Get some balls.
- chalk0
I would call them and have a candid conversation. "Hey pal, I really wanted to do this for you and in my excitement, I offered you a very fair daily rate, but I forgot to factor in my incidentals because I was so excited to do this for you."
Kissing a little ass will go a long way in these situations.