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  • Orbit0

    This is more like it...

    425 5th Ave
    New York, NY 10016
    For sale: $4,500
    1 bed
    Transit: 5th Avenue (350 m)

    America: the new Monopoly.

  • Orbit0

    Oxford Plaza Premier First Class Luxury Building.
    24/7 Doorman w/Elevator In Building.
    2 Indoor Parking Spaces. Fitness Center. 1 Bedroom/1 Bath Raised Panel Doors, Hardwood Floors, Granite ...
    Price‎: $2,500 ‎
    Bathrooms‎: 1 ‎
    Listing type‎: Residential for sale ‎
    Bedrooms‎: 1 ‎
    Posted on‎: November 14, 2010 ‎
    Property type‎: Condominium Unit ‎

    • Is that monthly?Tonpopo
    • yeah, pretty sure it's monthly.akrokdesign
    • could be weekly or day rate also.akrokdesign
    • Its the price of the condo. Full ownership. That's how much it is on sale for.Orbit
  • Josev0

    Why are you selling Moldero? Do you need to move?

  • tOki0

    wow that's pretty fucked up :/

  • Boz0


    nah.. I wanted to stay in that house for at least 10-15 years..situation is not going to recover for a long time and even if it does $180k in appreciation happened, in best times, only after like 20 years in Arizona (if that).. I'm not gonna stay in Arizona for next 30 years just to break even on a house and pay 2-3 times more in interest to the bank.. Either way bank wins and I lose, plus you are a slave to the house. Doesn't make sense..

    They all got their bailout money and now they are pushing "moral" responsibility on everyone to keep paying for hugely under-water properties they caused. Well since they look at it as business, most people look at it as a business decision to short sell and get rid of bad debt.

    • as they would say in movies.. it's nothing personal, it's just business.Boz
  • Josev0

    I guess I see the position you're in, but I don't see where the bank wins. The costs will more than likely be passed along to investors. The only person that won was the developer who profited early in the process.

  • Boz0

    the bank wins because you are paying interest to them on a property that is not worth that much at the moment.. so let's say at the end of the 30 years, my house is worth exactly as much as I paid for it.. not only did I pay off the house, I also gave bank almost as much money in interest. Bank didn't lose anything at that point and actually made money off you paying it off. Even though at the end, you can sell the house and be like 30 years never happened.. you break even on a house. You get my point? That's why bank wins.. me as a sheep would be paying for their profit, and for them to pay off their debt but I'd be on zero in the end. For no reason whatsoever except their own greed and the greed of Wall Street.

    The builder got their money. they were the guys who made money and were not hit by this at all on the properties that are under water. You are right there.

    Btw, it's downright insulting what they are doing to like "offer" help and modifications of loans.. they are all plain bullshit.

    Here's what they would need to do to keep me in the house..

    Cut my mortgage in half..and just call it a day.. refinance and let me stay in the house without selling it.. Their loss would be less than trying to sell the house for like $100k which is what it's worth now and they would still make money cause I would refinance under $140k and with interests and all that they would just break even in the end by paying off the $280k value of the house..

    Nobody loses. But now.. that's not what they are doing.. they are going out of their way to continue to fuck people over and to just make it harder for everyone..

    It's a disgrace really.

  • Josev0

    I understand how a home loan works and how much interest is typically paid on a loan over thirty years (a lot - multiples of the purchase price). You don't need to explain it to me. I also think the banks/lenders had a lot to do with the current mortgage crisis, but I believe there are homeowners that contributed, too. Would you be complaining about your payments if your house was increasing in value?

  • Josev0

    I'm sorry, I guess this frustrates me for a number of reasons. I didnt buy a home because I thought the prices/price increases were irrational and unsustainable. Other people (friends) did, and for years I heard a LOT of bragging among this group about how their property values were going up. Was it a home or an investment. Now the homes (investment) are losing money and several want to be compensated for their losses. You were comfortable with the payment and utility you received from the purchase while it's value was increasing, but now that it will potentially cost you want out.

    My Roth IRA(s) halved themselves in the last two years. Do I get my money back?

    With all due respect to Moldero, because I dont know his specific circumstances.

  • Josev0

    I do feel sorry for people who need to move early because of job changes -- or whatever reason -- because they're in a tough spot and cant afford to take a loss.

  • Boz0

    My house would be increasing in value if they didn't fuck it up.. of coursde I wouldn't be complaining.. what kind of logic is that..

    People don't know shit.. the fact that agents and real estate brokers and banks kept telling people and assuring them they can get their houses for cheap because that's the "loophole" in the system is something that can't be blamed on people..

    Everyone wants to live comfortably in a house.. it's the American Dream everyone is being sold.. so when 3 people in a chain tell you, that by some magic, you can buy a house you couldn't before people will buy it..

    The fact is, they caused this, and they devalued my house and I have ZERO obligations to pay for their fuckups.

    I love my house, but this is business.. to top it off, all these banks AGAIN got their bailout money, that everyone will be paying off again.. It's really ridiculous..

    People should have absolutely ZERO moral issues with dumping their houses.. Nobody had morals in that business and now they expect all of us to just suck it up in addition for bailing them out..

    Yeah..that's not gonna happen. At least not with me, no matter how much I actually like my house and don't want to do it, it's the thing that makes more business sense on top of everything.

    Btw, I'm sure you've seen this but it's an excellent explanation of what and how this happened..

  • deathboy0

    If you short sell now with that new plan u also get like 3k in pocket change and guarantee against lawsuit

    • and ty mister bush for giving us a get out of jail free card if debt is credited to u in a 1099. no taxes!deathboy
  • GeorgesII0

    • good thing i moved out of there by late 90sbrodster
  • Josev0

    What do you mean, deathboy? How can debt be credited in a 1099? I thought a 1099 was a statement of earned income.

    • Are you saying that the loss is reported as 1099 income and is not taxable?Josev
    • do you mean a 1099-A?Josev
    • thats correct until 2012. mortgage forgiveness thing. if u short sell before 2012 and bank write off debt as credit given with 1099 your clear form taxes on itdeathboy
    • on a 1099 youre free from paying taxes on itdeathboy
  • Boz0

    It's gonna get worse..and btw.. those are ONLY foreclosures.. I'm dropping my house too.. I will be short-selling it..

    Add short-sales and you will see much worse picture.. Foreclosures are for those who either can't sell the house or just left it and don't care to deal with anything or the deficiency laws are not on their side in certain states.

    This is why on that map Arizona looks emptier than it is with house situation.. Half of my community is selling homes. It's like that almost everywhere I know people.. even in Scottsdale..

    What's even worse is that I had friends who got out of their houses with short sales to avoid foreclosures and the people who bought them at a super low prices are now even more underwater.

    This thing ain't over yet.. the shit will hit the fan again.

    • Why are you selling? Can you no longer afford the payments?Josev
    • No..there's simply no logical sense to continue paying for a $280k house that's now worth a $100kBoz
    • But it may recover over the long term. Were you looking for short term gains?Josev
  • Boz0

    Btw, Josev.. I totally understand what you are saying..
    But here's how it happened for me..

    I knew that the houses were on the high side.. My houses were sold for about $160-$170k just before they started building them..

    Since I moved from Europe to States it took me a while to get credit and all that stuff to buy a house.. I always planned to buy a house because from business side it never made sense to rent for more then 2-3 years because of the difference in mortgage and rent.. You have about 2-3 years of renting before mortgage starts making sense.

    So I finally got a chance to buy a house.. I just needed a place to settle.. The houses were mostly finished and I bought my house on a great location in the community (probably the best one) . Until I could qualify those houses were about $220k but since they finished the community I basically paid them on the high end ($240k or something like that + some additions to the house)... 1800 sq.ft. house.

    Mind you, this was still super super cheap compared to national prices of houses, especially considering Cali and Nevada and so on market values.. I paid willingly on the high end because I was planning on staying there for about 10-15 years until I could really build my own dream house by myself. IN the mean time, if you looked at historically and how prices rose on average (1-3% annually - very very low estimate) there was no reason for anyone to look at it otherwise and I wasn't planning on making money, the math said it would really just break even with the house.

    So being a bit under water didn't bother me if the market was steady and stable.. That's why I continued paying for a while my mortgage when all my friends were short selling.

    But as the situation started getting worse because of the greed and system collapsing.. you start realizing that it will never go back (even if tomorrow we had the historic rise in real estate market, you still can't get in the next 10-15 years back to what I paid)..

    To me right now it makes sense.. I can't tell you how much I hate moving and finding a new house to rent and settling there, but since banks and investors and everyone looked at it as business with zero feeling of responsibility, why should I or anyone in a similar position? We shouldn't.

    • A mortgage making sense has nothing to do with a specific timeframe (2-3 years). It has more to do the rent to purchase ratio. In some locations it makes sense to rent forever.Josev
    • ratio. In some locations it's cheaper to rent for the long run.Josev
    • http://www.nytimes.c…Josev
    • right.. with that math it made more sense here in AZ to rent up to 3 years and I did rent for 3 years.. then it made more sense to buy a houseBoz
    • to buy a houseBoz
    • Im with boz. Mortgage made sense in my area. Figured id jsut break even in my timespan, but other factors ruined that and now im bailingdeathboy
    • now im bailingdeathboy
  • Boz0

    Josev in some states banks could pin the remainder of your debt (they couldn't get by short selling) to your taxes.. so even if you sold your house you would still be responsible to pay taxes on the difference as income. That's what he is refering to.. the new plan relieves you from that tax.

    Of course, I don't know what's happening with deficiency laws (cause AZ doesn't have that) but I think that's also forgiven so the bank doesn't go after you legally for the remainder of the debt.

    Overall.. it's like this now.. Short sell your house by 2012, you will get $3k back for moving help (if you qualify I guess or something) plus you are free and clear.

    • u can get sued. but ppl have bankruptcy. so they likely just write it off instead of costly litigation.deathboy
    • and that 3k u have to qualify with that gov plan for short sells. my place had a trainwreck of a story. 223k sellign for 55kdeathboy
    • unfortuneatley i didnt qualify and now jsut facign fact that i may have to use the bankruptcy card if lawsuit happensdeathboy
    • you don't have deficiency laws in your state right? Arizona wanted NO on that I think in 2009 and that's why they can't do that here.Boz
    • hereBoz
    • talk about trainwreck dude.. my house $280k being sold now for about $95k actually..Boz
    • I mean they can't sue you like you explained.Boz
    • naw its a state they can come after u. Im hoping they dont find me worth the cost since if they did bankruptcy is in best interestsdeathboy
    • interests. dont have much to com after me for. and a shame if i filed BK since that is my only debtdeathboy
    • shoudl have run wild rackign up credit cards and not being responsibledeathboy
  • GeorgesII0
  • mikotondria30

    We chucked our house in and have a lower cost rental - you have to be circumspect about it - it was painful to walk away from a place we had genuine feelings about, but I'm glad I'm not there now, paying payments on an amount of money that I don't have the value for.
    Now money is expensive and houses are cheap.

  • Frosty_spl0

    I was trying to sell my house in north Atlanta for about what I paid for it 3 years ago. I took it off the market because it didn't sell. I bought it for 178k, trying to sell it for that much so I can break even. Tried getting a new realtor but they all want me to short sell. I don't want to screw my credit. I think I might be upside down 10-15k or so.

    I can pay my mortgage, barely, but I want to move back to town so I don't have to drive so much.

    • yeah..that's a tough one.. 10-15k is nothing.. that will go back up for sure in the next couple of years.Boz