Don't dream it's over
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- GeorgesIV0
I know exactly what you mean yol, our field is filled up with people that come from "upped middle class" families but pretends to be bums, they often don't have to actually work, but will happily do it for almost nothing thus bringing our entire net worth down,
[ generalization done ]
but not everyone had this path, don't think for a sec that because someone had rich parents he couldn't work his ass off to get where he is. If you think london is dead they are tons of emerging market that will pay you well but you just need to try your chance and move.
At the end it comes down to networking, you need to look for opportunities where they are, Singapour, Dubai, United Emirate, China are emerging markets and are looking for professionals to fill creative positions, just need to take your chance pack your shit and move. good luck to you mate,
- yol0
The generalisation is correct. Dalston/Shoreditch is full of rich kids dressing like poor art students because its cool. They intern for nothing months and then eventually get the best jobs.
I was offered an internship at really good fashion magazine but i had to turn it down (twice) because I couldn't afford not to work. I had to take the shit corporate job and miss out on the magazine.
- ukit20
This just sounds like the situation for people in most industries who are starting out in today's shitty job market. Do you think it would be any better if you were trying to do something else?
- Im not starting out, but it feel like I have to start again. Its been like this for nearly 4 years.yol
- So you're 4years out of college?ukit2
- What would starting again mean?ukit2
- I've been doing design on/off for 10yrs. The first 5ys in the north were sporadic. Eventually I gave up, went to OZ for a year, came back and have bee struggling again ever since. I dont know how much longer a person can survive only working half a year in London on 15k and underyol
- yol0
Even Peter Saville went to a posh school in Manchester!
- monospaced0
Top tier designers often have great educations. It helps with their professionalism, their reading/writing skills, and their ability to work without supervision. It's not a discrimination thing as much as you're insisting.
- Continuity0
'Dalston/Shoreditch is full of rich kids dressing like poor art students because its cool. They intern for nothing months and then eventually get the best jobs.'
Right, I know a troll thread when I see one.
- pfff... you must walk around London with your eyes close then. Even the local Turks in the are complain about them!!
yol - you sound so bittermonospaced
- Maybe I am! Its not fun being extremely poor.
yol
- pfff... you must walk around London with your eyes close then. Even the local Turks in the are complain about them!!
- monospaced0
Ultimately, yol, it sounds like you would prefer hiring in London to be based entirely on quality of the body of work, and I would agree, for the most part. Do you hold up to your competition in that area?
- Yes I do, Im better than most designers
yol - well thenmonospaced
- Yes I do, Im better than most designers
- Morning_star0
For what it's worth, I hope you find a solution that ticks all your boxes. My fear is that your perception and expectations are unrealistic. You are already disappointed with an industry that has the same inadequacies all over the world. Above the line, below the line, digital, print, etc etc etc it makes no difference, you are a tool and you're bought and sold at an hourly rate nothing more, nothing less.
The answer, start your own agency, put in the hours, attract the clients you want to work with, employ the people you want to work with. There are loans and grants out there for the taking.I suggest you continue your freelance but create a virtual shopfront and spend you time working on both. That way, if work isn't flooding through the door your income is at least protected. Good luck.
- WhiteFace0
I feel your pain yol it's a tough gig being a Northener in London. I moved there from North Yorkshire and was pretty shocked by the level of pretention. I was regularly made to feel inferior for not having been to one of the top schools. The general level of ignorance towards the North by (most) Londoners was shocking too.
- Im from Yorkshire too :)
And you are right, I get constantly looked down on for the those reasons... and not having an iPhone!
yol - an iphone
yol - *having
yol - Don't let the plumb-mouthed cousin fuckers get you down!WhiteFace
- now look here chappy, do learn to spell, there's a good fellow. we're plum mouthed...hans_glib
- Im from Yorkshire too :)
- mekk0
yol, maybe you need another point of view on design; I also felt myself kind of 'not good enough' a long time working and then I just stopped working for advertising agencies! Graphic design can be so much more than being an ass in some ad agency
- hans_glib0
i'm sorry i just don't buy this. if you are as good as you say, then you shouldn't have any trouble finding a job.in my experience, the design industry is the most egalitarian of all sectors. we just don't care where you're from if your work is good.
so bollocks to "i don't get work cos i'm a pleb from the north". i just can't believe anyone really cares that much. there must be something else putting people off. how do you come across in interview? if you're all pushy and have some massive sense of entitlement then i guess you aren't going to get the gig because employers will worry you won't fit into a team. the last thing anyone needs in a company is some loose cannon with a bad attitude.
but what do i know - i'm
a) a southerner
b) went to a "decent" art school
- monospaced0
If being from the North is such a big problem, maybe don't mention it?
- yup, apply anonymouslymekk
- It's kind of obvious with the Yorkshire accent.WhiteFace
- that sucksmonospaced
- https://www.youtube.…WhiteFace
- WhiteFace0
This guy sums up the situation:
- i_monk0
Wait, you're English but can't get a work visa for Canada or Australia? I thought all us Commonwealth types could do that easily.
- yeah, as a 3rd worlder I'm kinda offended, I can't even go to london without a visa and I live in the shengen area...GeorgesIV
- Because London isn't in the Schengen Area...i_monk
- 3rd worlder? Aren't you in Italy?pango
- I know it isn't schengen, suck to not have an 1st world passport, you don't know all the hoops I have to go through to travel.GeorgesIV
- Oh where you from? Now I'm curious.pango
- orrinward20
I agree with you that rich graduates have a better chance of getting into the industry because they can afford to work the unpaid internships, but saying that you can only become a successful designer in London if you went to private school is a load of bollocks.
Our industry sucks at the entry-level because unpaid internships are still the norm and accepted.
I got straight into the industry out of Uni because my course offered placement years and I'd already got a year under my belt before graduation. I didn't go to private school, but I did go to Uni. Friends that did neither are working as designers in London successfully and they're a mix of upbringings and experiences.
Some landed a good job with no previous experience (other than Uni) simply because they were awesome. Some got lucky. Some could afford 0-pay internships and did those. Some negotiated part-time 0-pay internships and paid their start off with part-time bar work.
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I doubt your predicament is anything to do with your skill (as some would assert) but you probably don't know how to "network" properly.
If you're freelancing, are you then hitting those guys up for permanent work if they like what you do?
I've done a little bit of UX consulting for startups and I've got job offers at some of those places after consulting for them.
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I can't relate on the north-discrimination side as I'm from Berkshire, but everywhere I've worked in London has been very multinational and certainly not just posh white Londoners.
- pango0
Certainly not with that attitude.
Well I don't actually know the situation in London. But it's hard to believe you can't get a job just because you have different accent went to none private school your whole life. Perhaps it takes more than good work and grades from school. I do believe the creative industry has this common understanding that grads in school don't really mean much. You could be a genius in your own way that the prof disagree with. Maybe it's something else.
This coming someone who's an none white immigrant who went to public school his whole life and not a dime (ok maybe couple bucks) received from parent since 16. living supporting on his own.
Complaining gets you no where. There's gotta be something you're not doing.
Chin up, march on.