Fake war
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- Cactus0
Trying to rationalize a irrationality.
What I mean by metaphysical dilemma in this context is that our modes of accomodation with two opposing ideas i.e. compromise, concessions , ect., will never work when dealing with religious fanatism or other millenarian movements. They must be opposed with vigilence and containment. And, if they are violent, brute force.
- kelpie0
surely though we should be dealing with the grievences that make people so ripe for radicalisation and trying to cut off the fanatics at source, while dealing strongly with those who are already a threat?
- lowimpakt0
you're still using academic language.
but what you are saying is that there is no compromise in ideological struggle because you are right and you need to suppress those who you oppose ideologically or feel threatened by and if they don't don't fall in line you bomb them.
it seems like old hat to me. can you validate this approach? - i.e. show me were it has worked.
- jpolk0
balance is hilarious. lebanon was an amazing place to be a month and a half ago. beautiful weather, cultured people, great shopping and dining etc. it's a major tourist spot for the entire world.
what a brainwashed fool.
- Cactus0
surely though we should be dealing with the grievences that make people so ripe for radicalisation and trying to cut off the fanatics at source, while dealing strongly with those who are already a threat?
kelpie
(Aug 16 06, 03:56)kelpie,
I agree with that approach. I suppose where we disagree is where addressing those grievences should end. For example, (leaving aside the blackmail aspect) do you agree with the letter by most of the muslim groups in Britain that the UK should modify it's foreign policy to prevent more attempts at killing you and your fellow citizens?I'm sure you do. But I think, perhaps, you would stop accomodating that demand somewhat short of what they have in mind.
low,
I think you misrepresented what I said.
- kelpie0
this being the full text of the letter?
" Prime Minister, As British Muslims we urge you to do more to fight against all those who target civilians with violence, whenever and wherever that happens.
It is our view that current British government policy risks putting civilians at increased risk both in the UK and abroad.
To combat terror the government has focused extensively on domestic legislation. While some of this will have an impact, the government must not ignore the role of its foreign policy.
The debacle of Iraq and now the failure to do more to secure an immediate end to the attacks on civilians in the Middle East not only increases the risk to ordinary people in that region, it is also ammunition to extremists who threaten us all.
Attacking civilians is never justified. This message is a global one. We urge the Prime Minister to redouble his efforts to tackle terror and extremism and change our foreign policy to show the world that we value the lives of civilians wherever they live and whatever their religion.
Such a move would make us all safer."
I don't get much from that, I have to say, its pretty vague, what do you take it to mean?
- laurus0
No magma, it's not about semantics. Hitler called himself the savior of Europe, so what.
You are talking about an armed milita financed by another country (17 Billion dollars, by Iran) sitting in a country with a central elected government with an army of it's own. The militia is shiia, and represent Iran and Syria, although the population of Lebanon consists on a varried population and sects and it started with an uprovoked attack on Israel.
Freedom fighters? Even in Lebanon most people don't call them freedom fighters. They don't even call themselves freedom fighters but rather Mujahidin—religious martyrs of the Jihad.
semantics? antisemantics.
- Cactus0
The subtext is:
We are loyal, moderate muslims who would never resort to violence.
But if you don't do what we say, that angry muslim guy over there is going to throttle you in your sleep.
- lowimpakt0
low,
I think you misrepresented what I said.
Cactus
(Aug 16 06, 04:25)
------------------------------sorry if i did.
can you refine what you were saying without the jargon and theory?
- kelpie0
I don't think that's the subtext at all, it's a pretty cynical reading of it, imo
- Nairn0
*throws Kelpie a rope
"Come on out, man - the hole only gets deeper from here.."
- kelpie0
you're probably right mate, no offence Cactus - agree to disagree :)
*takes Nairn's rope
- Balance0
balance is hilarious. lebanon was an amazing place to be a month and a half ago. beautiful weather, cultured people, great shopping and dining etc. it's a major tourist spot for the entire world.
what a brainwashed fool.
jpolk
(Aug 16 06, 04:16)Good try but caught ya spinning. You pulled what I had said out of context you little nut. I was talking about Iraq at the overall conflict in the middle east at that point in this conversation.
- kelpie0
*thanks God, he just took that rope
- Balance0
Hearing people call the terrorists "freedom fighters" as if they are trying to prove that they understand all sides is absoultely ludicris. They know that. We all know that. The people who call them "freedom fighters" would cry if they were under the rule of "freedom fighters". They haven't a clue.
- lowimpakt0
kelpie / cactus -
some of this is funny because we got some of the same jip during the IRA campaign.
"the irish community must root out terroists" etc etc
like we all knew who the terrorists were!!!!
that letter is partially explaining the fact that much of the issue of political and not some vague religious/ideological clash.
Again the same shit was played out in Ireland - it's the catholics vs the protestants etc - that was the laziest analysis of the siutation - and i meet people on my travels that still think that was what was going on!!!.
oh and cactus - I'm starting a PhD in a few months and I have been on a crusade to minimise my use of academic language - so i'm not picking on you - I just think you might have something interesting to say if you got to the point :)
- garett_west0
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/me…
This fake war is going to get real ugly real quick.
Lions (Syria), Tigers (Iran) and Bears (Lebanon) oh my.
- Nairn0
*shares thermos of tea and digestives with Kelpie, at top of hole. Peers back down into bleak depths, hollers to LowImpakt "Biscuit?"
- lowimpakt0
Is the tea fairtrade?
:) BICCIES
- garett_west0
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