that's our bush
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- tommyo0
some good ideas there. living up north I don't see the volume of illegals that you must see.
mrdobolina
(Oct 11 07, 12:28)Thank you. An awful lot. I don't mind them personally. My family was in the restaurant business out here and we helped a lot of them, even gave one of them 2k so he could take his mother back home who had died. But the strain they put on the system is quite enormous and no one really knows what to do about it. I also know that they do send a lot of money home...so 20 million people sending money home instead of putting it back into our economy, plus running up unpaid medical costs = quite a dent in our economy. There was a sad story of this guy Juan who retired from one of our restaurants, super nice guy, sent home all of his money. Lived like crap so he could retire in Mexico. When he finally did go home he found that his daughter had spent all of his money. I feel for the illegals I really do, I can understand why they're here. But we need to figure out how to deal with the problems they cause.
Okay really...time to work!
- tommyo0
pr2,
this is from your beloved NYT:
'Federal law requires hospitals to provide emergency care to critically ill or injured patients regardless of their immigration status. But because many illegal immigrants work in low-wage jobs that offer no benefits, and cannot qualify for Medicaid, they use emergency rooms as their primary source of routine and critical health care. As the number of such patients increases sharply in states like Florida, California, Texas and Arizona, so too does the financial burden on health care centers that treat them, hospital administrators say.'
And here is the article:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/ful…I'm going to start working again now so you can go ahead and keep trying to inform people that illegals don't strain our systems. Next time you visit the states come see me and I'll take you on the tour so you can see all the hospitals who've gone bankrupt and are now gone. Then you can explain to me why that is.
- mrdobolina0
See tommy that is why you come off as a cock...
"your beloved NYT"
Everytime I refer to you I am going to cite things from FoxNews and say the exact same thing. Would that be cool or fair or?
- pr20
so in other words my family (and the few other families i know that are like ours) are the unusuall cases -- what were we thinking!
- tommyo0
Dobs, no it wouldn't be fair, I'm an independent and I detest Fox. So maybe you can find a source that I hold near and dear to my heart.
pr2, I fail to see your point...so because they sent you bills and hassled you then illegals wouldn't dare go through that stress for medical care? If this is what you're presenting then I'll go ahead and enlighten you on a sad fact...they don't give addresses and phone numbers to be contacted. In fact, there was a red light camera system put in here...cost 5 mil or something...over 50% of the people that camera catches running red lights have expired or BS plates...which I'm going to tell you, means that they're illegals who are driving illegally. Now I'm not dumb enough to think that 50% of the people living here are illegal. It just means that 50% of the people running red lights ARE illegal in some way. So those tickets go unpaid, just like medical bills.
I don't know about your family, why were you supposed to have free health care?
- mrdobolina0
TOmmy, the US GOv isn't picking up the tab when illegals fail to pay their bills, so I don't get your point.
Wouldn't it be better for the hospitals if more kids were insured?
- mrdobolina0
so pr2, loves NYT then? I don't see what you mean.
- tommyo0
"Are you fuckin with me??!' From Bad Santa
Illegals don't pay their bills = Cost of medical care rises (Illegals are one of many reasons) = No one can afford health care = Middle class kids don't have insurance = Gov now steps in to cover kids?
How about fixing the underlying problems? See, they're still going to be there...paying for kids isn't going to fix any of the problems except the last one (in my trusty diagram)
- tommyo0
so pr2, loves NYT then? I don't see what you mean.
mrdobolina
(Oct 11 07, 12:54)You should start picking your battles Rick. PR2 didn't even have a fucking problem with it. He mentioned conservatives in a negative light which let me know that he's a big fan of the NYT. Bees still make honey right?
- Mimio0
Usually Medicaid covers it.
- tommyo0
"But because many illegal immigrants work in low-wage jobs that offer no benefits, and cannot qualify for Medicaid, they use emergency rooms as their primary source of routine and critical health care."
Article from NYT:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/ful…
- mrdobolina0
Name one thing that is a service that the price has ever come down on. Without the government stepping in, how do you suppose that is going to happen? It isn't and you are always telling me I live on ideals and need to step into reality. The reality of it is there is not one board of directors for a hospital in this country that is going to voluntarily drop their prices. Not one, and you know that.
Here is a another thing, not every city in the country has as many illegals as southern california. so that is definitely somehting to keep in mind.
Also, I think you know as well as I do that the malpractice argument is scapegoated hugely.
- Mimio0
They can't get general practitioners under Medicaid but their ER visit is covered. Bush actually passed legislation to make it harder for illegal parents to get care for their children under Medicaid, even though their babies are technically US citizens and should be entitled to it.
- mrdobolina0
//but we're going to Mars, Mimio!
- tommyo0
I really can't think of a service that's come down in price other than dialup internet. But I do know that to reduce costs, you reduce overhead. And in the last 10 years, hospital/medical overhead has gone way up. The government isn't proposing to help cut the overhead, they aren't offering a solution to that. That IS the problem, they aren't trying to fix it. And you're going to tell me that the directors of hospitals are going reduce the charges to the gov for the middle class patients? You know they aren't, if anything when the gov gets involved, the prices go up up up. So the cost for the health care goes up even more, but the charge to us is hidden in cigarettes, property tax, sales tax, income tax...we're all going to pay for it - inflated health care coverage. I don't think we should.
Tell me that my argument doesn't make sense, I mean I really can't see how it doesn't. I want kids to be covered and safe too!! Trust me, it's important to give our children the education and health care that they deserve. The more that the gov meddles in this stuff, the less likely we're going to be able to do it on our own in the future. Talk about prices never going down? How about our ability to provide for our families going down.
- mrdobolina0
It is a self fulfilling prophecy, Tommy.
Starve the government services the funding that they need and then bitch that they don't work.
And then when they fail they say:
See?
Republicans run on this everytime, they run on government being inept and then they prove it when they are elected.
Here is a novel idea that would fix the health care problem in this country...
Lose the for-profit model.
- Mimio0
Same thing with social security. They've been that it's insolvent for 25+ years all the while stuffing the SS Trust Fund with IOU's and spending parts of the payroll tax on other things.
- Mimio0
^They've been saying that...
- tommyo0
Look this is just a broken record. We can just agree to disagree. Democrats don't fix shit either when they're in power - But you can keep putting faith in them. I really could care less...we're not developing policy here, just sharing ideas.
We're supposed to be making the world a prettier place - but we're debating politics. Novel idea!
- mrdobolina0
you mean the "lockbox" mimio?
I remember in 2000 they kept making fun of gore about that term.
Then Bush spent all the money and borrowed a bunch more on the backs of your kids.