Nazi > healthcare
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- raf0
One thing I don't get about the US system is how come private insurance got too be so expensive there? I mean.. €100-150/monthly covers you out of your ass here in Ireland, you get a private room in the best hospital in the country.
State healthcare sucks balls here though.
- keithrondinelli0
I'll tell you how the US system got so expensive. It's simple really, and it's the same reason our country is fucked in any other number of ways: GREED. You've got greedy insurers and greedy drug companies that have been lobbying and writing policy in Washington for so long that they've rigged the system and turned it into a giant money-maker. Add to that greedy doctors – and I know there are very many good, well-intentioned doctors out there - and the whole system is pushed through the roof as far as costs go. Being a doctor here is seen as a way to get rich, not necessarily to help people. Hospitals will do numerous expensive procedures that aren't even needed just to collect. It's outrageous. I understand EVERYTHING is a business in this country, but who ever thought it was a good idea to make people's health such a for-profit business. It's just insane. And then you have a president trying to fix a completely broken system, which will help EVERYBODY, and he's being called a Nazi? I agree with an earlier post – even though I live here, I think the world would be better off if we nuked North America. There's far too many obese, uneducated, religious wacko hillbillies here. Just let me know before you drop the bomb, so I can high-tail it out of here.
- Beeachboy0
Not a lot - still no-one has come up with a convincing argument as to why affordable/free Health Service is such a bad idea
- Socialized Health Care will become a way for pharma companies to milk the system like never before, I'm afraid.raf
- The State will pay whatever a bill says, the prices will skyrocketraf
- raf - poor people will get well though. Govt controls will sort that outBeeachboy
- "Govt control" is the last thing I'd ever rely on, but it's me. Poor people will pay for it unknowingly in their taxes.raf
- well so what? taxes go towards a lot of things we don't necessarily agree on, but they are a fact of lifeBeeachboy
- If the govt (US and UK) can find the billions to prop up the banks, then they can give you guys a far reaching health serviceBeeachboy
- service-Beeachboy
- No competition means prices will go up, the system will be always underfunded.raf
- It could work if it had an opt-out option: I don't pay med-tax, I get no service. This would bring real competition to the scene.raf
- raf0
In every other industry strong competition and advancement in technology lead to lower prices and better service.
For healthcare, pharmaceuticals, med hardware and supplies the only way is up. How's that even possible?- dude, don't bother trying to get a coherent point across in this thread. it's a waste of energy.styleplus_amillion
- styleplus_amillion0
- FOUR LEGS GOOD!
TWO LEGS BAD!styleplus_amillion - hmm. you're not really helping your own argument here.Gucci
- FOUR LEGS GOOD!
- raf0
I say, go for it America. I personally expect it to be a disaster, but you will not know if you don't try it.
The fucked up system you have now is probably even further from a healthy free market than those plans anyway.It really works well only in countries which won the natural resources lottery, ie. Norway. It always makes me smile when people from there praise their socialism :)
- TheBlueOne0
The problem is that government has been so wildly successful that people don't even realize it. It's like air. They don't see it, don't contemplate it's importance and despite the fact that all market enterprise rests on a working government architecture, think this "free market" stuff floats out there in the ether supporting itself.
How about this little thought experiment, eh? Auto industry. Car. Great stuff. People argue back and forth about whether unions ruined them or not. They use that as some sort of argument for or against "socialism. You can get political about imports too. Or how some smart hotshot saved Chrysler, or Ford or whatever.
Well, a) the fuel the cars run on is subsidized by your tax dollars. b) the cars and infrastructure that allow these fantabulous machines of free market profit to ride around relatively damage free? These fantastic roads and highways and street signs? Wow. Tax dollars at work.
How about we subtract just those too things to the incredible free market auto industry mix, eh? Let's see, so gas would be at a true "free market" rate..so we're at what? $8, $9 a gallon? How about driving these things on brokedown potholed roads? Oh welll expect high repair bills. Oh, you say we can privitize the roads? Great! Then expect toll booths all over the place and arbitrary rules of the road every time you cross from one section of road owned by one company to another. Oh look here "Free Road" corp charged you $10 to ride down it's ten mile stretch of highway and oh, they caught you not signaling on their "security cam" which violated their implied EULA you agreed to by driving on their road and they won't let you off until you pay an additional amount. You really don't think that wouldn't happen?
In other words, government subsidized, accountable to the democratic process roads and fuel allows the auto industry to make a profit. Otherwise the only people who would have cars would be rich folks.
This works for most industries. Go ahead and look at agricultural subsidies, or energy subsidies...all this shit that the "free market" relies on is funded by YOU and public money. The "free market" couldn't exist otherwise...yet these "free market" people think they do it all by sheer force of will. Not even close. And let's not get into the amount of money spent on having a working law and enforcement system to guarantee contracts are, you know, enforcable.
And let's not get into the few trillion we just handed to the banks because they were greedy fucks and grinded the whole credit industry into the fucking ground. Yeah, that kinda "socialism" is a-ok, right?
- wildly sucessful?
*chucklesstyleplus_amillion - Move to somalia where the government doesn't work moron. You'll be a warlords butt boy in a day or so.TheBlueOne
- The trillion stolen from you all is a good example as it's the essence of socialism. There's even more to be stolen in the..raf
- ..socialized health care systemraf
- raf makes a sound point.styleplus_amillion
- wildly sucessful?
- set0
- :Dstyleplus_amillion
- LOL. This is like the 5th time I've seen this in this and the politics thread.sigg
- styleplus_amillion0
^ this pic is appropriate,
though I doubt the person who posted it, knows a damned thing...
- TheBlueOne0
Yeah, "wildly successful" butte cup.
Did you ride the subway this morning? Did it get you were you wanted to on time, more or less? Were you accosted by gangs or criminals along the way? Did you successfuly walk across a street with crosswalks, street signs and traffic signals? Did you order a new pair of ninja boots or your cologne of the week from Amazon? Did it show up at your door because it was shipped by an airplane directed by federal aviation workers? Did the plane not crash because it was inspected according to government regulations? Did the UPS driver find your address because of the street signs? Was the UPS truck held up and robbed?
Yeah, very successful. If you think all this stuff just floats out there and you benefit because of the "free market" that you don't pay for?
If there;'s a blind sheep as to how shit actually works here, it's you.
- wildly successful
*chuckling harderstyleplus_amillion - Oh so if gov provides some things then it should provide all things? Weak ass argument.mathinc
- wildly successful
- pascii0
we have healthcare here. and it works. the system is almost waterproof
- skt0
haha, was he this much of a tool in the pub?
- styleplus_amillion0
@ raf
you make some pretty sound points.
good look getting a sound point across in this thread, though.- Learn to speak english first, AIIIGHT!DrBombay
- http://8.media.tumbl…DrBombay
- raf0
TBO, if it weren't for govt regulations the aviation industry would've gotten their own standards and airports would demand compliance from airlines. It is a tight market and if your plane goes down you risk an instant bankruptcy anyway - you know you must have your hardware in check.
Actually, this market is a good example of how free economy benefits the consumer: since the market was liberalized in Europe and anyone can start an airline I have been flying all around Europe for the same price as a taxi to the city centre. Before that there were monopolies and fares were expensive as fuck.Look at the railways system in the UK: since they were privatised they compete with each other. You have posters with on-time stats on every station and the service is superb.
- I certainly wouldn't use that adjective to describe the train service in the UK. Good, possibly, but not superbBeeachboy
- Trains are very expensive, because they're run by companies that only care about profit.lukus_W
- The service is adequate, imo... I used to commute and the amount of fckups was unbelievable.lukus_W
- haha.. but they're not heavily subsidized anymore, unlike the rest of railway systems in Europe?raf
- the privatised railways cannot afford or wont pay maintenance. Gov/we do. JeezuzShaney
- they are talking about buying some of them back they so bad. talk about stretching points to suit argumentsShaney
- I must have outdated info then, last thing I read was they were approaching profitabilityraf
- privatisation isn't the fix-all you think it is.lukus_W
- DrBombay0
I think the current state of American helathcare shows how a private system can go awry though, no?
- healthDrBombay
- Learn to spell english first, AIIIGHT!ProTroll
- Can anyone start a health insurance company in the US or is it a closed club?raf
- Not sure.DrBombay
- Medi-QBN-sure? All profits go into new threadsBeeachboy
- That's like asking, can anyone start an investment bank. Sure raf, "anyone can," provided you are a billionaire.ukit
- haha you think healthcare is a fucking private industry?? hahahahaha seriously.mathinc
- raf0
My point in general is, anything state-run will be highly cost-inefficient compared with a private sector based solution. It's always the case when bureaucrats spend money which isn't theirs. It's natural.
Another aviation example: Dublin Airport is reportedly overloaded. While Irish authorities discuss building another state-run airport for Dublin (for taxpayers' billions), a similar-size privately operated Gatwick Airport (near London) is twice as efficient in terms of passengers served/airport size.
- styleplus_amillion0
@raf - another wonderfully delimited point.
again... good luck with trying to explain your point to a government-worshipper.They are too deeply in awe with what they see around them. They attribute it all to government then praise the government, in turn.
it's little different than the high priests of old who would "bring rain". and then "bring sunshine", then they'd awe the masses with lunar or solar eclipses.
He might even taunt the masses to pay up more taxes, otherwise, the sun won't come back...
these tactics can cause a population to worship the ruling class.
often times, there is little use in explaining otherwise...
- ...they'd simply call you a devil.
:Dstyleplus_amillion - The fact that you frame people as "gov worshippers" means no one will ever have a realistic conversation with you.DrBombay
- You're free not to converse with me at all. Thanks for the warning, though.styleplus_amillion
- Keep on framing arguments in a dishonest way, half wit.DrBombay
- ...they'd simply call you a devil.
- Beeachboy0
The solution is not black or white, but America has a brilliant opportunity to look around the world, and ask, what is working well in each country, then borrow the best ideas, create a new viable solution, implement it properly, monitor it efficiently and GET THE POOR PEOPLE WELL AGAIN.
There are problems in the NHS, but the good faaaaar out weighs the bad.