client wants files-argh
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- ukit0
Whatever your opinion is, it's worth remembering that in a strictly legal sense anything you create is yours, unless you specifically sign an agreement saying otherwise.
It doesn't matter that someone paid you. If I design a site for someone and they don't make me sign a contract, I can resell that site design a million times with or without their consent because it's my property/ creation.
So really, the client has no say in this situation, in a legal sense. But from a business perspective, airey is right that you might want to do whatever makes sense in terms of making the customer happy so you can get future work.
- PonyBoy0
^^if the swf is online... on their (the client) server... then the client got the product... yes?
- fyoucher10
We talkin' bout' ActionScript?
- BonSeff0
memo to owner at yummy, overpriced, upscale restaurant,
i thought this dinner was super terrific, can i get the check & recipe please?see how that goes over..
- these analogies are funny but completely unrelated. i do like this one and will use though!airey
- completely unrelated, huh... you my friend, are wrong.BonSeff
- could you remake a great meal even with the recipe?airey
- and very little actionscript is reinventing the wheel, even if you think you are yourself.airey
- airey0
if we're using unrelated analogies, you pay an architect to design your house. you also get all the plans and paperwork and can request any meeting and briefing notes - effectively the working files leading up to the job being designed. ive even been around projects where the architect even supplied any cad files the draughtperson created (mainly for 3d flythroughs to be modelled). these were not small architect firms either.
- BonSeff0
BULLSHIT
blueprints are wireframes essentially. We're talking about production.
"Effectively" the working files are the framers, brick-layers, roofers, etc..
meh, now we are getting into semantics.. respect your profession. negotiate and charge appropriately in the contract. A client is not owed production files when they are paying for the end product.- the work is in the actual work, not the plans.. jesus.. not to disrespect the planning, but the work is why you plan.BonSeff
- fyoucher10
Oh yeah, worst case the client's "web friend" can always just use a DECOMPILER to get your ActionScript. So in the end you tell the client they can't have the precious, they get it anyway, and you lose a bill paying client.
I totally see everyone's comparisons with other things like paintbrushes, recipes and the likes but we're talking about practice. I mean Flash.
I love Flash and all but have you ever seen a program out there that was made in Flash that is 'that' valuable. Not me. I've seen some cool and useful things but we're not talking about new inventions here that will make you a millionaire overnight. No 'real' software programs. Nothing extraordinary. Your not making robots with Flash. Unless you're making some kind of Air application that can also give you the reach around, chances are your code isn't that special or someone else in India who works for a dollar an hour has already thought of it.
- Meeklo0
these analogies are funny but completely unrelated. i do like this one and will use though!
– airey1/4
completely unrelated, huh... you my friend, are wrong.
– BonSeff2/4
could you remake a great meal even with the recipe?
– airey3/4
and very little actionscript is reinventing the wheel, even if you think you are yourself..........................
Same goes with tomato sauce, but even if you are not reinventing the wheel, it's still your creation as a programmer. Now I understand that in the end is your client and the final decision is yours, but if we were to play by your rules with this "very little action script" then I hope you are doing all your design work for free, because colors, typography, pencil (or pen tool), sizes, etc were all invented by someone else..It seems to me, that you don't even respect your own profession.
I still don't understand why to you is ok to do this in any other industry but ours, and I mean no offense, is just I've been reading your comments about how every time someone throws an analogy based on another profession, you think they don't relate or apply to design.And even if we don't agree, (which most likely won't happen) I consider this one of the good threads of today. :)
- same. it's also an issue that doesn't have an easy answer. individualism for all!airey
- mikotondria30
Claim you just wrote the swf in notepad...its certainly possible, when I was 11, my friends and I would try to write 'programs' to fit in 1k, using z80 assembler 'language'.
It was worse than giving a dead camel a blow job, but we stuck at it.- try a 4 page 'game' in commodore 64 hand typed. one wrong comma and no worky.airey
- BonSeff0
airey, embrace and respect your talent, ffs. creativity is NOT A COMMODITY.
- Time spent being creative IS.mikotondria3
- that's why I don't charge by the hour like a fucking mechanicBonSeff
- yeh.
Cunts.mikotondria3
- PonyBoy0
i can drop $200 on a couple of amazing steaks at a place called Drakes here in town...
... or I can roll over to Outback and drop $40...
... in both situations - I sit and wait for the food... I don't...
... OH FUCK IT... FUCK ANALOGIES... YOUR MOTHER IS A WHORE!
- ..you don't dissect a whore's genitals after you're done.
Unless you're jack the ripper.mikotondria3 - hahaha.airey
- ..you don't dissect a whore's genitals after you're done.
- chossy0
Just do what I do and make your projects so fucking complicated they are unworkable to anyone but you, it's an age old technique. If you decide to give it away or even sell it on you are still integral to the operation and comprehension of the file.
- airey0
each to his/her own, but my talent lies in the doing. the shit at the end is just files to me. i hand over for a small charge and move along. if the client leaves me i'll never use the files anyway and if they leave me for someone that can do better and use the files then so be it.
- For a small charge is as far as I can tell the fairest way of doing things.chossy
- Meeklo0
And by all means, if you for any reason want to give everything for free to your client, do so, it's your right!
I would be a lier if I stated that I have never worked for free, I actually work on several projects out of love EVERY SINGLE MONTH, throwing events, doing posters, helping a friend, whatever the reason, it's my choice. But it's one thing when you choose, and it's another when the client demands.
In order to keep doing my self promo projects I need to keep several paying clients happy doing real life work, I understand sometime we might love our profession so much that we think we are lucky getting paid for something we wouldn't mind doing for free, but even so, you have talent, and invested in education, technology, and most important, time.
If you don't learn to value yourself first, no one will.
- brains0
I would charge them more for the source files. I'm sure someone has said that, but seriously, that's how we do it. Bill them for the work, and if they want the source, bill them more.
- if you can get away with it god bless ya!airey
- don't be afraid to try Airey, its a standard practice.Meeklo
- and by the way airey, nice work!
Meeklo - airey does hand over the files for a small charge.chossy
- apparently i don't lol! everyone keeps going back to some 'for free' angle for some reason?airey
- and thx meeklo, it's hard to know when you're on your own. i always worry i suck real bad!airey
- Meeklo0
- I get ta fightin' after a few of these...mikotondria3
- shandy's all round ya pack-o-nancies!airey
- Hey that's piss!!!!fyoucher1
- *shhh! see if he'll drink it !mikotondria3
- PonyBoy0
beer before liquor?!
omg omg omg... you're so stupidd! :D