en or em dash
- Started
- Last post
- 32 Responses
- gramme0
Maybe that's why I use so many em dashes in emails and such. ADD, check. Not sure about the indecisive part.
- TheeOtherJuan0
Funny, that fits my copywriters character!!!!!!
- vaxorcist0
I knew an editor once who thought em dashes were a sign of an indecisive writer with ADD, who had to clarify and quantify and use weasal words rather than just write clearly. He said he rarely hired anyone who used more than 1 em dash per page.
- DrBombay0
—
- jimzyk0
ALL CAPS ALL OF THE SHIT & MAKE SUURE tO uSE LOTS OF .... (DOT DOT DOTS'S ——) .....
- TheeOtherJuan0
okay, the headline with the em dash did not get picked so found no need to shoot the mofo down (sigh).
- jaylarson0
ESSENTIALS OF SPONTANEOUS PROSE
Jack KerouacMETHOD No periods separating sentence-structures already arbitrarily riddled by false colons and timid usually needless commas-but the vigorous space dash separating rhetorical breathing (as jazz musician drawing breath between outblown phrases)—"measured pauses which are the essentials of our speech"—"divisions of the sounds we hear"—"time and how to note it down." (William Carlos Williams)
- always loved his view of commas
http://www.writing.u…jaylarson
- always loved his view of commas
- welded0
How about this: a headline is supposed to just get to the point and as has been established, em dashes are used for embellishment, so to speak, and therefore probably do not belong.
- vaxorcist0
em dashes are the print designer's revenge on the IT department's attempt to force people to use content management systems that screw up certain characters....
- Um, no. Em dashes have been around waaaaay before IT departments—or print designers, for that matter.duckofrubber
- I'm kidding -- can't you tellvaxorcist
- wtf is up with the four periods at the end of your comment?monospaced
- ellipses followed by a period is standard for ending a sentance with an ellipses.jaylarson
- monNom0
my simple rules
hyphen: for hyphenating words
en: for numbers
em: in place of perentheses
- duckofrubber0
I tend to shorten the em dash by around 15–20% and add a very small amount of space on either side. Not much, just enough for balance (somewhere between a hair space and thin space in InDesign).
- why not just use an en dash?monospaced
- too shortduckofrubber
- funny, because it's just about 20% shorter than the emmonospaced
- not true. it's about 50–60% shorter.duckofrubber
- Well, it does depend on the typeface. With Helvetica—as an example—it is exactly 50% smaller.duckofrubber
- monospaced0
I guess the main reason that em dashes have no place in headlines (scarabin) is that a headline is rarely, if ever, a complex sentence in and of itself. AMOK's link doesn't mention headlines specifically, but it does state this:
"Parenthetical expressions may be set off by brackets, parentheses, em dashes, or commas. Commas should be used for the least interruption in the sentence, followed by em dashes, parentheses, and brackets for progressively greater disconnection."
Basically, if your headline includes a parenthetical expression, it's a terrible headline and probably should be reworded.
- Agreed.welded
- Not to mention that they simply don't look good in that contextmonospaced
- good response here. now going in to fight my copywriter :) (cocks 9mm)TheeOtherJuan
- nobody can tell me what is or isn't a good headline, that varies with publicationscarabin
- you're trying to say it has to do with grammar now and not punctuation at all, which is bullshitscarabin
- i was debating the punctuation itselfscarabin
- punctuation and grammar are intimately linked and it's nearly impossible to argue thatmonospaced
- gramme0
Furthermore, using em dashes with space either side is distinctly British; em dashes with no space is more or less North American; and spaced en dashes is a more contemporary approach, favored by people like Erik Spiekermann and Robert Bringhurst. Bringhurst even goes so far as to say that full-width em dashes belong to the "padded and corseted aesthetic of the Victorian Age." I wouldn't go that far, but I do agree that em dashes are more old-fashioned.
Personally, I go back and forth between close-set em dashes and open en dashes. Don't have a strong preference either way. Like I said before, it depends in part on the particular fonts being used.
- whatsup0
Hyphen (-)
The hyphen is the minus key in Windows-based keyboards. This is a widely used punctuation mark. Hyphen should not be mistaken for a dash. Dash is different and has different function than a hyphen.
A hyphen is used to separate the words in a compound adjective, verb, or adverb. For instance:
The T-rex has a movement-based vision.
My blog is blogger-powered.
John’s idea was pooh-poohed.En Dash (–)
En Dash gets its name from its length. It is one ‘N’ long (En is a typographical unit that is almost as wide as 'N'). En Dash is used to express a range of values or a distance:
People of age 55–80 are more prone to hypertension.
Delhi–Sidney flight was late by three hours.Em Dash (—)
Em Dash gets its name from the width of it, which is roughly one ‘M’ long or two ‘N’ long (Em is a typographical unit twice the length of en—and almost the length of capital 'M'). The Em Dash can be typed as two En Dashes. Alternatively, in MS Word, you can type two hyphens together to get an Em Dash. The ASCII code for this is "—".
Em Dash is used to set off parenthetical elements, which are abrupt. This is different from commas separating parenthetical elements. For instance:
The tea—with cardamom and other spices—was delicious and fragrant.
Make sure you don’t use spaces around the Em Dash.
Em Dash also separates the final part of a sentence that is logically not part of the sentence (similar to the colon use in this context).
Several friends were present—Saurabh, Arun, and Smija, among them.
Though most people prefer to follow the Em Dash without spaces, some people recommend using Em dash or En Dash with spaces around.
- <that's how I use 'emWrappedInBooks
- dont forget me.. i use hyphene-pill
- TheeOtherJuan0
i monk, I am speaking in specific to headlines.
- i_monk0
Spaces around ellipses, or just after? I think just after, but our proofer says the style is changing.
- TheeOtherJuan0
Calm down boys.
I have my presentation in a few and will just mention the use of the em dash in the headline to be "too much". Since I am not a copywriter and don't have the background to go against it–I'll just take the higher road.
- You didn't need that dash. A simple comma would have sufficed.monospaced
- ukit0
OK mono spaced, Calm Down - this War isn't your's to fight
- now you're just pushing my buttons :Pmonospaced
- hahascarabin