Scottish independence
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- yurimon0
Not Freedom if you still pay taxes on labor... Scotland fought for what became common law birth rights in its past history. I dont know how real this independence is.
- I'm not sure you know what you're on about.detritus
- Real freedom... what scots fought for. to avoid English tax system and oppression from lordshipyurimon
- I think you'll find that English tax pays into a lot of their economy. Considering the population difference.sem
- he's talking about braveheartzarkonite
- kingkong0
The thing that gets me is this illusion being painted that Scotland is going to become some sort of socialist paradise, with free education, free health care, lower taxes and house prices etc...
"all the arguments about people thinking we will have a socialist paradise in Scotland if we just get rid of all those Tory MPs, but I think they will find themselves sadly disillusioned when they are just as dependent on foreign investment and all the other stuff that make countries have to make the compromises that they do."
- kingkong0
The other wonderful thing will be:
"Whether Salmond was negotiating with Cameron or Ed Miliband (and it is worth remembering that if Labour wins in the UK in 2015 and then wins in Scotland in 2016, Labour could in fact be negotiating with itself), the process would be likely to be prolonged. The UK government would have every possible incentive to drive a hard bargain with Scotland, as Hammond made clear in the defence context this week, and it would be backed by public opinion."
- sem0
@Wolfboy
That pretty much sums up a lot of what I've seen online.
"In a more just and democratic future when your grandchildren ask you if you supported the great change what are you going to tell them. That you were scared, that you thought a bunch of self serving Etonian scum seemed like a better choice"
That attitude has nothing to do with what would benefit the economy best, rather just pointless ignorant hatred for the UK and their efforts. Anyone who refers to the Government as Etonian scum clearly forms their opinion of all in the house on the actions of a few.
I'm curious if anything, I'd love to see this superhero government they are expecting to fix everything without any significant learning hiccups on the way.
I'm mostly interested in the new ideas this dream Government have on dealing with Glasgow's crime and addiction rates that no one else would have been trying. Apparently they have the cure for poverty and everything will be so much better so I'm all ears and hoping for the Yes vote.
- maybe they may feel that the problems in Glasgow are related to massively unequal society dreamed up in Westminster. maybe. i don't knowlowimpakt
- maybe, i don't know.lowimpakt
- Great points again. 'Yes' voters seem to think Scottish politicians will be saints...babaganush
- Glasgow population = 500k, London = 8m. Quarter of that 8m in poverty, so 2m yet Glasgow has high crime rates?sem
- kingkong0
I always think the daily Mash gets it about right...
SNP leader Alex Salmond has admitted he has never been entirely sure what he means when he says ‘independence’.
Scotland’s first minister revealed he has always thought of independence as a ‘play within a play... within a dream’.
He said: “Well, it’s a concept, it’s an idea, it’s a thing.
“In my mind I see it as a tree in the shape of Scotland. Does that make sense?”
Salmond said the idea of independence involving things like a currency and a central bank, was ‘very left brain’, adding: “How would you even do that?”
He said: “I think once independence is here I’ll have a much better idea of what it is.
“Any other questions?”
- kingkong0
ALEX Salmond has told Ed Miliband to ‘button it’ after the Labour leader tried to expose his epic scam.
Scotland’s first minister insisted he was working a sweet little number and that Miliband was making it hard for an honest thief to earn some scratch.
Salmond said: “I’m in the middle of the greatest long-grift of my life and this guy tries to queer my action.
“I thought we had a code. You see a guy doing a thing and you back off and find your own cheese.”
Salmond’s grift involves promising everyone in Scotland a non-existent oil field and selling them a health service they already own.
He added: “Give a guy some elbow room. I’ve been working these piss-monkeys for years.”
Salmond then put his arm around Miliband’s shoulder and told him to go back to scamming English idiots with the no-cuts fandango.
- kingkong0
ALEX Salmond has finally admitted he hates Scotland and wants the country to be independent so he can abolish it.
The Scottish first minister insisted his fellow countrymen are the worst people in the world who spend most of their time ‘either threatening to kill you, or vomiting on you’.
He said: “I can’t keep lying. It’s a hellhole filled with drunken nutters, ghastly housing estates and food that is simply disgusting.
“I’m going to win independence, bankrupt the place, set fire to the buildings and then move to France – as long there aren’t any Scottish people there.
“I want to leave this place a wasteland, populated only by scavenging piss-artists and thousands of bastard folk singers.
“Now I’ve finally come clean, I suspect I will have the backing of the vast majority of Scots, who all hate each other as much as I hate every single one of them.”
Mr Salmond also revealed he ‘loves the way Vladimir Putin holds ordinary Russians in utter contempt’ and would gladly hand Scotland’s economy to the terrifying president and his gangster cronies.
He added: “All Scottish people are sexual deviants.”
- chossy0
I love reading about myself here it's incredibly enlightening.
- sem0
People in Glasgow for example complain that London gets more attention as does the rest of the UK. Yet this people ignorantly ignore WHY that is.
Glasgow's population is around 500k
London's population is around 8mSo maybe ask yourself WHY London is getting a load of attention from the Government, because that is where a huge amount of this countries population are. There are small borough's within London that almost fit Glasgow's entire population into it.
There are many theories as to why, most commonly due to racism and the main cities (London, Birmingham etc) being the only places minorities feel they can integrate but hey...thats just a theory, there are just as many immigrants all over the rest of the UK and Scotland than in London right? lol, sure.
Add to this the amazing fact that despite London having around 25% of that 8m population in poverty (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-en... of which we know is a huge cause of crime. Glasgow is actually has higher rate of violent crimes per 100,000 people (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-sc... because life is so hard on them 500k being put a lower priority to 7.5m others so they have a right to be so violent. Seriously, this is how the argument looks to most English, its embarrassing.
So yeah, we might miss out on some odd oil money while it lasts, but the UK's crime rate will drop considerably when Glasgow and such out of the picture. And Scotland would no longer be able to blame the fact that the UK has priorities for their problems. Bring on the YES vote.
- sem0
Also, while we're talking about London's population issues...
Can I also just point out that the UK population is around 63m.
Compared to that of Australia which is around 22m.Then consider that Australia argues that a chunk of its land is inhabitable, but still add this rough guide into the equation.
Then ponder this question...you think it might be time for Australia to consider the rest of the world and open up a little more to immigration?
- Think its safe to say that London does its fucking job when it comes to helping others.sem
- So when places like Scotland attack our Government for not doing enough it makes me realise how ignorant and selfish they are.sem
- Bare in mind that London is just a city, thats not even taking into consideration what the whole of England does.sem
- And for the record, I'm proud as fuck that England (esp London) do their bit for the world. I welcome those in need of help as should everyone.sem
- Nathan_Adams0
^
I agree. Sydney & Melbourne are pretty large already, but there's plenty of opportunity for the second tier cities (Brisbane, Perth, Adelaide), and third tier (Hobart, Darwin, Canberra, Geelong, Newcastle, etc.) to increase density. Won't happen while the general population regard urban sprawl and massive blocks as their birth right and the "Australian way", while apartments are looked down as dog boxes and future slums (which is ridiculous when the majority of apartment developments here are inner city and $$$).
- UK has 3 times the population of Australia which just puzzles me when you see the size difference.sem
- There's got to be a reason to move there. What jobs? It can't all be mines and cafes, although that's where it's heading.MrT
- heading.MrT
- Well i'm just going to go out on a limb here and assume a place that size could provide more jobs than the UKsem
- If they at least doubled in population construction alone could boom no? cities could double in size etcsem
- Obviously building an economy is not that straight forward but still, the growth could be amazing for Oz.sem
- i_monk0
Weeeeee!
(Canada takes in about a quarter million immigrants a year.)
- I've never been to Canada but seems like the kind of place I'd like to immigrate to.sem
- Canadians are very polite and welcoming, but the winter is deadly.zarkonite
- EU takes in over a million immigrants a yeard_gitale
- net immigration ~ 3/4 of a milliond_gitale
- The EU has the infrastructure for it. Canada's population is 1/14th the EU's.i_monk
- trued_gitale
- and seriously, most of that land is inhabitable. You euros have no idea what cold is.zarkonite
- er, uninhabitable.zarkonite
- hehe :)benfal99
- sem0
@ Chossy
Just for the record, me mentioning racism was not just a random dig. Again I was just referring to facts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rac…
- lowimpakt0
people who argue against independence on purely rational terms don't get it and probably never will.
listening to BBC radio4 was interesting this morning. talk of a federal Britain with Scotland being the start of something significant.
all seriousness aside, there's definitely a bit of this at play
- lowimpakt0
Sem, trying to explain why London receives so much political, economic and media attention just underlines the argument independence.
The current situation is shite and it's not going to change unless Scotland stands up for it/her/himself.
- Wolfboy0
@lowimpakt
"people who argue against independence on purely rational terms don't get it and probably never will."
That is it in a nutshell for me, I can't believe this kind of massive decision would be made on anything other than rational terms and it scare me that it's looking like it will not be.
As I've said previously the people I've spoken to directly can give no strong and sensible argument for the independence of Scotland other than a romanticised vision of the future having finally escaped the terrible oppression of the English. By the way, I'm yet to hear anyone actually telling me they want no part of the UK, only that they want away from the English (leaving the union almost seems a side effect to many of the Yes voters).
I tell you why this really scares me, it's a signifier for the next potential referendum - the one regarding the UKs place in the EU. The man on the street will happily listen to the chest beating empty words of men like Nigel Farage and Alex Salmond as is being proved at the moment both in England and in Scotland.
- lowimpakt0
from the polls I have seen more Scottish people than English want to remain in the EU. What's interesting is how UKIP and the madmen of the Orange Order are pushing for a no vote. It really undermines their emotional currency.
Having said that, there is as much of an emotional tie to the United Kingdom as there is for independence. You see all the members of public in London being interviewed saying how they like the "idea" of the Union but you can tell they really don't understand the lived experience of people north and west.