Coronavirus
- Started
- Last post
- 6,407 Responses
- yuekit0
Instead of shutting down the entire economy, I wonder if some strict but targeted measures would be more effective.
Force everyone to wear face masks all the time when in contact with others in public, no exceptions, punished by extreme fines.
Governments ramp up mass production of masks, test kits and other supplies, puts people to work making them.
Everyone has to download an app tracking their movements for the duration of the crisis. Data remains anonymous but if someone becomes infected, local authorities can track down everyone who come into recent contact with them.
People can still travel but must quarantine for 14 days in a hotel once they reach their destination. This helps keep the airlines and hotel industry afloat.
Retool "choke points" such as grocery stores, restaurants, airports where crowding happens so that it never gets too crowded. Limit the number of people who can enter at one time.
All of this would mean sacrificing freedom temporarily but it sounds better and more sustainable to me than the entire country staying in their room indefinitely into the future as the economy collapses into nothingness and everyone goes broke.
- its not just masks, but goggles and gloves you need. wash your clothes immediately after going outside.
i think they should ration people to avoid bulk buyingtrooperbill - I'm not sure which is worse in the long run********
- One what is gov temporary measure. Sunset taxes or Patriot. It never reverts. It sets up some leninism. Quite dangerous********
- Why I'm happy Trump isn't employing wartime shit Dems pushing for. At the end of the day this pandemic going to kill ppl********
- Just not sure it's worth tossing entire economy with the corpses. But who knows the econ is pretty fake. Maybe all good********
- most people when they travel aren't gone from start to finish more than 14 days... that number seems a little high simply for quarantine alonePonyBoy
- Hawaii is already doing the forced quarantine
https://apnews.com/9…yuekit - I agree the tracking could be abused, given record of the US government I'm not sure I would not trust them on it. But other measures would clearly be temporaryyuekit
- Imagine caring more about the economy which favours the few than people's lives.lowimpakt
- Ha trying to think of eco ony as if it has favorites. But all advanced civilizations rely on economy********
- Always still amazed me when people think of economy differently than there 10 dollar eggs********
- There aren't even enough masks to cover the need at hospitals, so your idea is useless for now. But certainly these types of measures have been discussed.nb
- I can tell you that the airlines don't deserve a $50 billion bailout. In the last 10 years, they spent 96% of their cash flow to buy back shares of their owneverscared
- own stock in order to boost executive bonuses.neverscared
- What's the alternative though? If airlines go down it's a bad thing for everyone.yuekit
- masks are useless unless you have it. N95 do work but there's not enough. Really the only way is to not go out and stay inside.elektro
- its not just masks, but goggles and gloves you need. wash your clothes immediately after going outside.
- teh0
- teh0
Just leaving this here. You decide.
- spl33nidoru-2
Two of my friends have been diagnosed positive, though the symptoms are rather mild and they're now feeling better after a few days of fever etc.
They're not slobs per se (rather chic) but definitely don't care about germs the way I think any normal person should. Both wear shoes at home (incl on bed and couch) and will occasionally mock germ-obsessed people or lecture them on the normalcy of their laid back ways.
Can't say I was surprised that out of all my friends they're the ones who got it.
- i hope they're staying home and not going out spreading itBennn
- Yes, both are pretty responsible otherwise, just not big on daily cleanliness prior to that. These 2 don't know each other, which makes the cause kinda obvious.spl33nidoru
- drgs0
- but what about the mass drop of corporate /work related accounts?sted
- "Conspiracy of the day" :)NBQ00
- in the first link there's actually an INCREASE in wired broadband users. so perhaps folk are cancelling their mobile accounts...microkorg
- ...and opting for a faster more stable connection with home broadband as EVERYONE is now staying home :Pmicrokorg
- Continuity2
A little bit of good-ish/encouraging news, thanks to The Guardian's live feed:
'Germany: signs exponential growth curve of new infections levelling off for first time
In Germany, there were signs that the exponential upwards curve in new coronavirus infections is levelling off for the first time due to the strict social distancing measures in force, the head of the country’s public health institute said on Monday.
However, Lothar Wieler, the president of the Robert Koch Institute, urged caution, saying many health authorities had not yet submitted their data from the weekend. “I will only be able to confirm this trend definitively on Wednesday,” he said. But he said he remained optimistic.'
- And then as soon as we go back to somewhat normal it spreads again until finally we get a vaccine or meds.NBQ00
- Well, if nothing else, it should show people that it's worth it to stop being cunts, and to stick to the lockdown rules until they're told otherwise.Continuity
- yeah the only solution is massive vaccination. All we do right now is to avoid averloading the health care system, thats it. Not to erase the virus.Bennn
- In the end, many of us will probably catch the virus... vaxx is coming at the end of the year early next year only from what i readBennn
- and there's no way we can live like we do right now for too many monthsBennn
- Nairn6
This marketing campaign for the next Watchmen series is getting out of control.
- nb2
A question asked in the comments: "What's the alternative [to bailing out airlines] though? If airlines go down it's a bad thing for everyone."
One alternative is that they borrow money at historically low rates and pay it back later. Tricky to borrow right now, but hey if we're talking about billions in bailouts we can figure this out. If we continue to bail out corporations they will never have incentive to change.
A better solution: We (the govt.) bail them out in exchange for ownership. We essentially buy them out. In a few years when they're buying up all their own stock again, we get our fucking money back. (Plus more, most likely.)
- The only way anyone has been able to "sell" the idea of a bailout is by telling everyone it's necessary for their survival. What a scam.nb
- well, i obviously agree that nationalisation is the solution. unfortunately in the US and the UK to a lesser degree socialism is only for the rich.kingsteven
- Doesn't really need to be an "all or nothing" nationalization. We can buy them up as though we're just another super rich investor.nb
- Bail out the workers and/or buy out the companies (at market rate); nothing for investors (investing is risk, kids) or boards.i_monk
- By the way, corporations know this would work and be more fair, but they're definitely going to ask for free money, first. Wouldn't you?nb
- Yep, it’s been said at least 100000x now but if there are to be taxpayer bailouts again in the USA, it should directly benefit the taxpayers.ben_
- And +1 i_monk, no investor or board money. No c-suite bonuses or incentives either for that matter.ben_
- I think most of the recent bailouts in the US have been structured as a loan already. And in the case of GM the government did take a stake.yuekit
- But you're right, the terms need to be better for the public than what was done in the past.yuekit
- ok_not_ok2
- Lovely. One of my favorite G 'n R songs.elahon
- NiceRamanisky2
- Bennn0
27,000,000 Americans doesn't have health insurance. This is a problem with a pandemy... I hope the Gov will do something.
- nb4
Take a deep breath, everyone. Pace yourself.
Spend some time to prepare yourself mentally for a hard year, at best. It's going to get very rough for a while.
- The economy and employment gonna take the hardest hit. And the lost lives the saddest part of all.Bennn
- Don't despair. Take each day as it comes. None of us are promised anything in this life. Try to find gratitude.nb
- My best pal phoned up beforehand and offered a load of design work, which I can do from home - just in time for LDN getting shut down in a few days time.Nairn
- ...i somewhat suspect that laser-cutting won't be considered a vital front-line service :|Nairn
- Ramanisky23
Success ... had to get there an hour before Publix opened and stood in line. I was maybe 20th in line .. doors opened and everyone heads straight to the aisle. Now there’s a line but short one ... I finally get there and there’s literally 2 packs of TP left .. savages.
- Strange that this is a world-wide phenomenon. Curious, if I will get TP on my next visit to the supermarket tomorrow morning.SimonFFM
- Bidets are the future12xu
- and they only allow one paper product per shopper. I grabbed 3 single rolls of Paper Towels and was told I could only get 1. Same with soups only 2 cans per.Ramanisky2
- are poeple expecting runny noses? im picturing homes full of used, snotted TP********
- went to the supermarket today - loaded up monthly shop as usual - no tissues / toilet paper or pasta - whatever - everything else needed was required. staysafe_me_
- Same here. Small line at Walmart, but only 1 4 pack per person.formed
- There's nothing to understand outside Herd Psychology syndrome.Bennn
- Fuckers love to shit™pedromendez
- Newspaper works in a pinch.stoplying
- I have so many extra socks that could be used and reused in a pinch.utopian
- ^ lol .. grossRamanisky2
- akiersky3
Here in Michigan, we are supposedly getting a Stay-at-home order today... just in time according to this
- neverscared0
- Well, was thinking, if everybody and I mean everybody just stays 1 month in house, the virus will actually die ffsake if is not spreading anymore!grafician
- I read this and still side with the Imperial College view (Graph 8)/ value of time... the epidemic model he uses does not allow for human behaviourkingsteven
- kingsteven6
3 million people die in the US every year. of those 1.4 million will be 85+
there are currently 6.5 million 85+ in the US
the gov't expects 80% all americans infected
that's 5.2m americans aged 85+ infected.I could go further in to the documentation on pre-existing conditions like how the majority of >85 y/o have diagnosed heart disease, multiple conditions and how those influence the death rate. But to keep it simple:
worst death rate for >80 y/o is 20% (Italy).
20% of the 5.2m americans aged 85+ infected accounts for 1.04 million deaths to coronavirus.
I've seen predictions that project the US death toll at 1.1 million, 1.7 million and 2.2 million. While it would be impossible to know how many of these deaths would have happened anyway in the next year - there's certainly an overlap.
The tragedy is that if the death rate for 85+ is as high as 20% many folks will have died unnecessarily as respirators will have been allocated to younger patients, how many of those younger patients will go on to have serious respiratory issues? and if the hospitals are that overwhelmed how many of the 6 million cured cancers in the US every year (and other treatable conditions) will be missed or lead to otherwise preventable deaths...
I'm writing all this because I see so many folks freaking out about numbers (particularly NBQ00) and can only see a vaccine in 18 months as the end point (bennn). The reason we need to isolate is to slow down the spread... What will hopefully happen is that we'll see treatments for coronavirus improve to a point where the deaths and related conditions reach an 'acceptable level' (i'm sure someone knows what that is... why is are seasonal flu deaths judged by society as acceptable?) and once we've got our health care systems below capacity (and hopefully not because of economic pressure), we will never reach those higher death estimates, governments will loosen distancing measures and W.H.O will recommend herd immunity. If this doesn't happen within 6 months i'd be surprised as we could see the deaths from treatable conditions and conditions relating to isolation (loneliness, poverty) overtake coronavirus - and if that's the case there's really only one solution:
CAROUSEL, CAROUSEL, CAROUSEL
- superb postfadein11
- Again - was thinking, if everybody and I mean everybody just stays 1 month in house, the virus will actually die ffsake if is not spreading anymore!grafician
- Then just go in and test everybody to see if there are remains...grafician
- and ofc, just pay everybody for 1-2 months directly - no fucking bailouts! that's itgrafician
- even the most incompetent presidents can implement this strategy, is not that hard commongrafician
- grafician total isolation is impossible and we're not guaranteed to develop immunity, agree with you on the rest though :)kingsteven
- Eventually in the dystopian future if your old, they'll just send a van round and you'll get in and get recycled Logan's Run style.PhanLo
- Exactly kingsteven, iam all aware of flattening the curb, i totally agree and I've mention it multiple timeBennn
- grafician, its just impossible... you'll also need to close the USA to the rest of World for a very long time. Its impossible.Bennn
- i know ben :) i was just using those numbers to show how isolation is only viable to improve treatment, not to wait for a cure.kingsteven
- *thumb up*Bennn
- Nairn9
Further to the above..
"WHO launches global megatrial of the four most promising coronavirus treatments"
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/…
It sounds like there's so much data, research and treatment sharing going on behind the scene and so much accelaration, that there might be some cause for hope.
Humans are an odd lot - typically it's required wars and militarism to bring out our 'best' - turns out it's just threats generally. Ozymandias was right... .
Also, I will always +1 Logan's Run references.
- I listened to a scientist saying the other day that the sharing on this is incredible. Something he also said was uncharacteristic in normal times.fadein11
- obviously it's unprecedented times but he said the community has come together way better than expected on this.fadein11
- On 60 Minutes last night, they interviewed scientists working on this. It was refreshing to hear them say "we're not in competition with each other...mg33
- ...we're all in competition with this virus."mg33
- I hope coming out of this this level of rapidly working together continues.mg33
- yep mgfadein11
- It's great they're working together collectively. Back to normal in a year.PhanLo
- it's incredible, working in the medical faculty for 8 years and my mind is constantly blown at the level of research, the international sharing of knowledge...kingsteven
- what company will make the vaccines? Will they share the patent between multiple companies to speed things up? There's tons of cash for them to make with thisBennn
- somehow this has to start happening beyond science + medicine so that we stop arguing over isms and start agreeing on objectively good ideasFax_Benson
- Are you advocating World Government, fax?Nairn
- @Bennn these are treatments not vaccinesernexbcn
- might tweak the name a bitFax_Benson
- +1 OzymandiasDRIFTMONKEY
