NFTs
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- neverscared0
The energy consumption of Bitcoin, Ethereum, and other Proof of Work-based blockchain networks has become a popular topic of discussion in recent weeks.
How much energy do Bitcoin and Ethereum consume? How do they compare to Tezos’ energy consumption, and that of newer blockchains?- looks like its a deliberatede choice if you want to fuck up your childrens future...neverscared
- deliberateneverscared
- This scene truly has the look-and-feel of a historic US gold-rush camp. There's some grizzled miners, some savages, a few whores, and just a horde of tenderneverscared
- East Coast people fresh-off-the-boatneverscared
- Nobody is gonna use PoS blockchains because they have locked their coins in Eth - as all buyers are crypto bros with ETH wallets.grafician
- Eth is taking it's time to advance to PoS because miners would lose over 50% of earnings so they don't want that.grafician
- Artists rn are so naive, minting with the "promise of untold riches", while filling the pockets of Eth miners. Oh well...grafician
- true, they must have a massive budget to blow that hype into peoples heads...neverscared
- grafician-1
"Pseudonymous $69M Beeple NFT Buyer MetaKovan Reveals True Identity
Vignesh Sundaresan said he wants to show Indians and people of color they could be art patrons, too."
- more info: https://metapurser.s…grafician
- ^level of BS in that post lolgrafician
- grafician0
This is Beeple's ETH address listed in the Christie's auction (here: https://onlineonly.christies.com… )
https://etherscan.io/address/0xc…
There's no record of any payment for the famous $69 mil. NFT.
There is however in his wallet a 0.2% stake in that B20 token sold by that guy MetaKovan who allegedly bought the $69 mil. NFT and started the B20 NFT fund.
-
So for now, no $69 mil. trade and not even that 2% B20 promised to Beeple.
Unless somebody finds that transaction or the parts involved show any proof of transactions, no money or ETH exchanged hands.
p.s. I find it ironic that nobody cared to look for the transactions by now, when the entire point of using a crypto blockchain is transparency of transactions - it's all there apparently, or in this case, it's rather not.
- So whenever somebody mentions "that $69 mil. Beeple JPG sold at Christie's" better add "allegedly" as this looks like BSgrafician
- i don't doubt it, i'm still stuck on how a link to a json file that contains a link to a JPG on a public web server denotes ownership.kingsteven
- But it’s ArtGnash
- correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Christie's set up the auction? His stuff is usually on Nifty but this wasn't. So wouldn't the buyer pay Christies first likefadein11
- any normal art auction? They set up the NFT their end I think from what I've read.fadein11
- I seriously doubt the 69mil transfer was done in ether also. The NFT will just be assigned to the buyer, most of it was likely done offline.fadein11
- Yeah no, if that was the case then Christie's owned the artwork and that guy MetaKovan bought on "secondary market"grafician
- so Beeple gets 5-10% not 100% and MetaKovan made a second transfer just for $9 mil. just in fees? Highly unlikely. Looks like a scam/PR stunt.grafician
- okay... an auction through Christies is secondary market though. But yes, I am interested to know the details. 69million will not be transferred by ether thoughfadein11
- there are twitter accounts that look for big transactions on the blockchains (whales moving coins), this was not recorded yet anywheregrafician
- Also Christies didn't own it, Beeple minted it on their auction platform so he owns it. The auction was handled by Christies and the actual monetary transferfadein11
- Christie's announced the entire sum was paid in ETH about 40k+ coins, check the press releases. But who got the coins, nobody knows.grafician
- will likely be through traditional methods. The NFT can be transferred to the buyer easily. But as I say I am not sure. It's complete fuckery regardless.fadein11
- as all crypto bros are only rich in coins, not real money...grafician
- No the auction was in fiat currency as in $, check that guy Sun's video, he was bidding in $ not crypto! The final price was paid in crypto, per Christie's wordgrafician
- but as any blockchain works, for NFT's the actual buyer get's to own the artwork after final bid, here we see no trace of any final payment.grafician
- So until I see proof of transactions on the blockchain, no NFT was sold here, no money was exchanged = total scam/PR stuntgrafician
- also on every tweet regarding the auction, people are asking where's the proof of transactions, not Beeple nor Christie's say anything.grafician
- @fade there are other payments in ETH in Beeple's wallet as you can see, for other artworks presumably sold on regular marketplaces, but this guys smells by nowgrafician
- @fade if Christie's has a private marketplace for NFT auctions, they still record transactions on the ETH blockchain, it can still be trackedgrafician
- yeah saw the other payments. Interesting, I hadn't seen Christie's press release. Amazed 69mil would be transferred in eth.fadein11
- "The artwork was minted exclusively for Christie’s, making Christie’s the first major auction house to offer a purely digital work with a unique NFT "fadein11
- Still think the money went to them.fadein11
- Here you go "for $69.3 m (42329.453 ETH)"
https://twitter.com/…grafician - This guy figure it out: https://twitter.com/…grafician
- yeah I've read the press release now. They say the transfer was in ETH. But they do say it was minted exclusively for them. How Beeple gets paid is anyone'sfadein11
- guess. Like I said the whole thing is fuckery. The piece is awful and price is ludicrous.fadein11
- So until I see some proof of payment by any party involved, I call this a crypto scam. Prove me wrong...grafician
- For art auctions, the house only gets paid commission, the buyer pays the owner directly separately (or not, as in money laundering)grafician
- No the money couldn't went to Christie's, you don't pay Nifty marketplace then Nifty pays the artist, the buyer pays directly the artist to become the new ownergrafician
- Also winning at auction is not legally binding, even if you win, until money exchanges hands no art was sold.grafician
- Better yet, until Beeple shows his tax fillings over that $60 mil. ($9 mil. was Christie's comission apparently) I call BS on this whole thing byegrafician
- Calm down. I'm having a discussion not an argument. Have you reached out to Christies at all?fadein11
- byefadein11
- Ah no argument with you mate, just saying lol
bye if the media calling this the biggest art sale blah blahgrafician - but no, really, don't you smell a little BS over this, with all these facts on the table?grafician
- https://www.christie…fadein11
- Christie's do take the payment and then reimburse the seller minus commission. It's all there above.fadein11
- ah ok, yep I think the whole thing is ridiculous.fadein11
- Obvs that link is for traditional art sales, who knows. yes it is crazy though.fadein11
- so that link says it's over a month until payment to the owner of the artwork, but for NFTs payment is usually instant..hmmmm lolgrafician
- but sure, will check out his wallet again in a few weeks, let's see if Christie's pulls through hehegrafician
- indeed. we need to see Christies wallet ID.fadein11
- funny how ppl say NFTs will change the art world, but the lack of transparency over this sale is disconcerting to put it mildly lolgrafician
- a $69 mil sale through Christies isn't exactly revolutionary nope. This madness will pass though, there is a lot of interesting stuff being worked onfadein11
- in both tech and workwise. Funny thing is this isn't even new, it's been about for years.fadein11
- grafician1
- Things will get v.gooder soon! He’s just mad now that anyone can call themselves an artistGnash
- Anyone that doesn’t understand the brilliance of NFT is just reading the wrong ‘articles’Gnash
- Ha! I posted the Brooklyn bridge grift earlier, should have thought to cash in instead of making snarky comments on qbn lol_niko
- @_niko yeah but only he can pull this of as a celebritygrafician
- zaq1
this is a good use of NFTs
an app that lets you make links that only NFT holders can see
https://nftclub.in/for context:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereu…
- zaq11
- palimpsest7
Oil paint changed art by allowing artists to paint bright scenes outdoors with new pigments. The work gained plasticity. It even led to doing away with representation. Painting transformed and reinvented itself thanks to oil painting.
NFTs are the folding table where you prop your stale work in your wife's boyfriend's yard sale.
NFTs have nothing to do with art.
- If one crosses out, ‘wordpress monkey,’ on their biz card and write in ‘Artiste’ using his wife’s boyfriends, son’s crayon - then he’s still an artistGnash
- as one who seems to understand some history, which is unpredictable, you are very sure of yourself.dkoblesky
- @Gnash
https://i.imgur.com/…palimpsest - Do you consider things like a tv playing static in a white room art? That's a staple in most art college degree shows.microkorg
- @dkoblesky
https://i.imgur.com/…palimpsest - @microkorg
It might have been in the 90s where TV as an object was still relevant but I don't see them anymore.palimpsest - I am simultaneously open to change and skeptical of it at the same time. I have no idea where this is going.....dkoblesky
- ....but as an artist, I have sold artwork for money I would have never been able to sell before....motion work,,,dkoblesky
- ....so I refuse to dismiss this....as much as I confess it mystifies me...i will keep an open mind and see what happens.dkoblesky
- even Jerry Saltz has adapted his stance to seeing NFTs as possibly a good thing while calling out bullshit....dkoblesky
- ...so holding to ideas at once is possible...and does not violate any laws....dkoblesky
- As of today, Monday, March 22, 2021 NFTs have nothing to do with art. NFTs have nothing to do with changing the system. NFTs feed capitalism.palimpsest
- Get your money and save me the bullshit.palimpsest
- out of all the things to complain about, the last on my list are artists finding ways to make moneyinteliboy
- As I said from the start, I'm happy y'all getting paid. "Digital *artists*" do have it hard.palimpsest
- LOL. As an artist, NFT is shit. The "where lambo" meme is perfect. Greedy cucks have NOTHING to offer. Fuck their shit, hi-res images and their cuck animations.babydick
- Y'alls living in squalor 'til your golden years, is about time you got yours and stuck it to the man.
#99%palimpsest - can't you say the same about photography or print? the market never had something to do with art. rethink your statement replacing art with market.uan
- @uan
You taking to me?
I'm saying NFTs have all to do w/ the market & nothing to do w/ art. People taking on photography weren't selling their pencil sketches.palimpsest - Artists taking on any new medium explore and push that medium. The market just assimilates it. It's great that artists get to profit from it.palimpsest
- NFts are a market. Even if you claim the market is the medium it's nothing new. And they're not even pushing this new market/medium.palimpsest
- So what are we really talking about?palimpsest
- @ps: was not really paying attention, was thinking you were against nfts and wrote what came to mind first. :-)uan
- I am NOT (completely) against NFTs.
I AM against the argument that they are about art and that they are changing the status quo.palimpsest - I think blockchain technology is here to stay and will probably bring interesting innovations.
I am against the bullshit arguments.palimpsest - what palimpset saidmonospaced
- NFTs are a hand drawing of a polaroid photograph of the receipt for the folding table, sent to self in a registered envelope, left unopened and useless.Nairn
- to date, I don't konw what an NFT actually gets you that you can act onmonospaced
- it's not like it's a copyright transfer or anything, is it?monospaced
- No transfer of any kind of copyrightGnash
- Which is that same for analogue art, as wellGnash
- NFTs are like admitting to a fart.Nairn
- When you pay for an NFT you get an NFT. Simple as that.palimpsest
- The beauty of it is that you are paying in Ethereum. Why can'tt we just celebrate this paroxysm of speculation?!palimpsest
- momo, you should give it a try. This could be your ticket out of poverty.palimpsest
- Gnash, right even in analog art. But with that you at least get the fucking art. With an NFT you get what? You get literally nothing?monospaced
- There is no ticket out of poverty for me. I’ll be paying for my million dollar home for another 25 years monthly. Kids in college etc. Just how it is.monospaced
- microkorg2
Anyone can own a Beeple artwork (just download from internet!)
Anyone can own a brick (steal from building site! or buy at DIY store)If you have the money you can buy a Beeple NFT artwork from Beeple.
If you have the money you can buy a brick from Carl Andre.But the beeple image you've bought isn't a unique instance, he could be selling thousands of them exactly the same.
But the brick you've bought from Carl Andre isn't unique, he could be selling thousands of them exactly the same.You've bought something that really is of no value, the perception of value is the one that artist has placed on the item or what the market is willing to pay.
You can't claim that NFT's are NOT art.
- NFTs are not the brick, NFTs are the receipt you paid for the receipt with the coordinates of the store where A brick is being stored.palimpsest
- ^ this pretty much says it allGnash
- You are not buying the brick with NFTs. You are buying a receipt.palimpsest
- I'm against speculation. But if I had to, I rather buy an actual brick from Andre than a receipt from Joe Six Pack.
Both systems are stupid, one is stupider.palimpsest - TLDR: NFTs are NOT art.palimpsest
- By the way, Joe Six Pack has no conceptual framework for selling the bricks.palimpsest
- They're just left over bricks from a shed he was building in hopes of banging his cousin at the next cookout.palimpsest
- And we find ourselves at an impasse. Because in Joe's worldview I don't understand NFTs but in my worldview he doesn't understand art.palimpsest
- The bricks are a beautiful analogy because some of my people are getting theirs by pushing bricks but they keep it on the low. Do what you gotta do.palimpsest
- #brickfactspalimpsest
- palimpsest2
The only valuable reason to be against NFTs is to not understand NFTs.
#notacult
- dkoblesky-1
I am doing this because it is being done to me...my words thrown back in my face.
So here babydick is saying that there is no good art in the NFT world. I can tell you that just about every type of artists is now creating NFTs. Sure there are hi-res 3d images but there is glitch and all types of illustration styles and painting styles and animation styles. NFT is not one thing....it is a way of selling it.
I think the idea of change is what is scaring people like babydick...'something is happening here but you don't know what is, do you....mr jones' (from a famous song....google it)
I respect your right to have an opinion....but really....calm down...no need to insult people.
I would love to see your art someday as well....so I can see why it is 'better' than NFTs
- depends with what price change is coming ... doesnt look like a too eco friendly of a service.neverscared
- so maybe it´s ok to insult, not that i would...neverscared
- don't take it too seriously, as Beuys said everyone can be an artist, but not everyone is an artist, Nft is just a tool that allows anyone to sell their images,kaffa23
- ideas, etc... and 99.99% of what is published as Nft art is shit, and not the canned shit of the famous artist Piero Manzoni, but it is simply shit...
So Nftkaffa23 - is not synonymous with art, but it is just a tool that allows you to cut out the art intermediaries and only this is a revolutionkaffa23
- yes, exactly kaffa23...dkoblesky
- this is the revolution? u can sell also your stuff without nft and intermediaries too..neverscared
- The folding table at your wife's boyfriend's yard sale.palimpsest
- @kaffa23
How does NFT cut out the intermediaries?
Show me on the doll.palimpsest - @dkoblesky mate you can't compare art and say "this piece is better than that piece" it's all subjectivegrafician
- @dkoblesky but also when many tell you you're not an artist, you're just drunk, maybe you're just drunk...grafician
- dkoblesky0
Here is what is new here. Almost every artist in the NFT space could not have sold their art any other way. My work is all motion. Where am I ever going to sell that? Nowhere.
There is a middleman in a lot of this and that is the platforms. I am on Known Origin and they take 15%of what I sell something for. And you have to pay gas fees for the network. These days that is from $80-120 dollars per NFT. But that is fine with me. If you do not like that you can go to other platform that take nothing....but I am not sure what other platforms do....i am still pretty new to all of this.
The style of many NFTs or what collectors actually own when they buy and NFT or the energy consumption (this is complex - read up on it - making an NFT does not wreck the environment) or the hype about Beeple...all this shit is out there...and can be discussed..
...but for me....as a motion artist I can actually find collectors who appreciate what I do....and pay for it....this is pretty special...
I have a hard time understanding it.....but I have come to understand that I do not need to completely understand the mentality of NFT collectors. Most of them are much smarter than me and have much more money in the bank than I do.
so to simply hate on all this....is really a waste of energy. It is here. I don't think it is going to disappear overnight. It might change and evolve but face it - we live more and more of our lives online - so why wouldn't something like this happen...it is an evolution.
- Only 15% from platform. An art gallery would likely take 50%. Great thing about NFTs is that artist gets a payout everytime it's resold. Usually 10%+microkorg
- I've seen a lot of artists selling NFTs backing up the original digital file sale with an actual print.microkorg
- Don't have a problem with any of the above. There are complete pisstakes in the NFT world though.microkorg
- Not sure why you have the impression that NFT creates new markets for previously 'unsellable' artwork, by which I assume you mean digital media -Nairn
- - I have an art-dealing friend who's spent the last decade-plus doing precisely that, and i'm pretty sure he didn't invent the segment.Nairn
- Also, what in sweet shit is going on with your font-rendering?!Nairn
- You need bifocals to decipher that shit.
#thuglifepalimpsest - Not everything needs to have a fucking price on it. Making 'art' purely to sell is just another job. I make my shit because I like it...face_melter
- ...and if someone buys a print or whatever, then that's cool but I enjoy the process and I enjoy the results because i'm not doing it to make money.face_melter
- This NFT shit makes me puke, so carry on selling the checksum of a looping gif of a dog taking a shit while India drowns.face_melter
- All this techbro garbage will be the fucking death of us and twats will still be wanking about The Future while whales wash up on the beaches.face_melter
- palimpsest1
"I would love to see your art someday as well....so I can see why it is 'better' than NFTs."
- dkoblesky
This is the last exhibition I did as an artist in 1998. It's called "Los días solo se suceden". It's an installation of a ghost house that intended to serve as a crime scene to the mundane.
I don't think it's better than NFTs. I think it took part in the discussion of the local artworld in its time.
I'm waiting on your expertise to see if my opinion is worthy of QBN.- well this is pretty cool. some very interesting imagery. I like the hangers and the bed. obviously tough to translate to NFT since it is an installation...dkoblesky
- believe me, people are trying to figure out how to convert ALL art to NFTs, even things like this.dkoblesky
- thanks for sharing.dkoblesky
- I'm not trying to convert this to NFT. I haven't been an artist since 1998. I've been happy being a designer and developer since.palimpsest
- I only posted this because I understood that we needed to justify our opinion with our art work to you.palimpsest
- maybe I should not have lumped you in with babydick. he is the one calling out my artwork....apologiesdkoblesky
- No need to apologize, we're good.
Get that paper!palimpsest - and someone can not like my art...big deal.....it is just they he used it as part of his argument about why NFTs are shit....dkoblesky
- and I was like....well let's see your artwork. he is not as open as youdkoblesky
- NFTs are shit tho XD
Your art is not the issue.palimpsest - are we starting up again...LOL....look at SuperRare and Known Origin....you will find art you think is good. Promisedkoblesky
- I have. No luck. It is what it is.palimpsest
- That's exactly where you are wrong, everything can be converted to Nft, an Nft is like an authentic registered inside the blockchain.kaffa23
- There are a lot of artists selling both the nft and the physical object.
This way among other things the registration remains and no one else can fake a work.kaffa23 - It is a more democratic and horizontal way that gives everyone the opportunity to sell and buy art, outside the elitist mechanisms of the galleries.kaffa23
- @dkoblesky
You said yourself that NFT has no impact on your art. We're just talking about different things.palimpsest - We'll never agree. I'm saying the brick is red while you're saying the brick is heavy.palimpsest
- @kaffa23
When you sell an NFT you are selling AN NFT. That's the only thing that's new, you are selling the receipt instead of the object.palimpsest - You don't always need to sell an object, just don't tell me the receipt is the object or that the receipt is changing the way the object is being made.palimpsest
- @palimpsest
the authentic is worth much more than the physical object, museums are full of fakes.kaffa23 - The authentic what, gif?
An NFT is a token with a link to a hosted gif, there is no authentic gif.
An NFT is only proof that you paid for an NFT.palimpsest - But that is not my issue. My issue is that you are selling a shitty (or not) gif that was collecting dust in your HD through the NFT platform. There is no art.palimpsest
- I haven't seen any 'NFT art' that fits my definition of art. Therefore, in my view, NFT has nothing to with art.palimpsest
- @palimpsest
who are you to say what is and what isn't art...? why couldn't a gif be a work of art?kaffa23 - as you said
"The only valuable reason to be against NFTs is to not understand NFTs."
My 84 year old father understood what NFTs are.kaffa23 - @kaffa23
Yet you didn't understand that post.palimpsest
- ESKEMA0
They bring discussion, curiosity and exposure, that's a good thing. The rest will evolve like everything does. Shit will always be shit, no matter the medium, but new mediums will give birth to new ideas that elevate our conscious minds to new levels that weren't possible before.
The internet is not art, but it fueled a whole generation to think and see the world in a new light, that went on to be represented in new forms of art and that affects us all in personal and individual ways.
this is how we evolve, trough repetition until something isn't really part of the past repetitions and that sticks, and then ends up creating new patterns of repetition that are collectively adopted. It's just humans moving along with their lives, getting inspired and doing stuff.- well saiddkoblesky
- 'Slavery is fine' - Slave ownerpalimpsest
- copy + pasteESKEMA
- Shudda NFTed that sidenote.palimpsest
- you can do it, I hereby pass you the rightsESKEMA
- NFTs are not replacing the internet though. NFTs live inside the interwebs. NFTs are like Venmo, except that Venmo doesn't claim to be changing art.palimpsest
- nothing will replace the internet. Where do you get these claims? And they won't change art either. They're just another layer on top of what already existsESKEMA
- "And they won't change art either".
So we agree that NFTs are not changing art. That's all I've ever been arguing.palimpsest - I have both dkoblesky & ESKEMA both agreeing that NFTs do not change art.
My job is done here.palimpsest - I never said they do. They're not even restricted to art. That's only a tiny portion of the use cases. They'll be bigger on the supply chainESKEMA
- they do however create novel use cases in the art scene. I only brought up this shit in here because it's a fucking community of artists so we can take advantagESKEMA
- e. I have minted zero NFTs. I hate Ethereum. People confuse everythingESKEMA
- People do confuse everything.palimpsest
- some people care about co2 reduction, not that big fat american gringo designer from silicion valley though, schadenfreude will be at high flow when the wildneverscared
- fires comes for their nu wealth esp. in calineverscared
- drgs1
"The blockchain is a solution in search of a problem."
True for all things crypto
- https://youtu.be/FF-…drgs
- said random privileged personESKEMA
- 'Slavery is fine' - Slave ownerESKEMA
- "I didn't pay for a slave, I paid for a transaction" - Not a slave owner.palimpsest
- "My asshole is bleeding" - Eskema's mombabydick
- you can't affect me, I'm not stupid. It does affect you toughESKEMA
- Shut the fuck up, ENEMAbabydick
- make me dipshitESKEMA
- I'm not scared, I'm not an anonymous cunt. I stand by everything I say.ESKEMA
- ENEMAbabydick
