Creationist Lies
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- discipler0
Unbelievable. And who is "Mr. Mayo" anyway? Ok...
1. MACROevolution is indeed garnering criticism in the scientific community and this is evident thru the numerous "response" articles being published in the various periodicals and it is evident by the media coverage we are all quickly becoming privy to. Whether you want to call say it's "in crisis" is or not, well... that's subjective. The fact is that progressive scientists who are objective about new discoveries are questioning the old ideas about origins. Call it "propaganda" til you are blue in the face... doesn't change what is actually happening.
2. I.D. is NOT Christian. There are general Theists, Jews and even Muslims I.D. scientists. You are confusing I.D. with Creationism. The only connection is that both question the Darwinian explanation of origins and species to species mutation. Fact.
3. This is a complete argument from silence. Go back and review every article I've linked from Trueorigins.org, AIG, and IDeasociety.org, most of these are extremely thorough in their treatments of the issues being discussed. Go ahead. The challenge is to you to demonstrate where one of these treatments is "saying the opposite" of what it is demonstrating. By the way, http://www.trueorigins.org was created as a direct response to the misinformation on TalkOrigins.org.
4. We are actually speaking of the so-called "Nebraska Man" tooth. This is when an ‘ape-man’ and his family were confidently reconstructed from what turned out to be a pig’s tooth. I'm aware of no documentation saying this issue was a "hoax". Would be happy to look at your evidence though.
5. I.D. and Creationist proponents do not contend with the fact that there are survival instincts in species and the related failure and extinction of certain species. And this is consistant with the scientific law of Entropy. This does not demonstrate a lack of design, rather it demonstrates a fallen world wherein creatures have had to battle for their survival. If anything, it harmonizes with a Creationist view of origins. We believe in adaptive mutations due to environmental conditions, but do not believe species to species mutations, which science has never observed.
6. Here are a few of the PHD's of prominent Creationists and I.D. proponents:
Jonathan Sarfati (Creationist):
B.Sc. (Hons.) in Chemistry (with condensed matter and nuclear physics papers substituted)
Ph.D. in Spectroscopy (Physical Chemistry)Dr John Hartnett (Creationist):
Ph.D. in Physics. PhysicistDr Don Batten (Creationist):
Ph.D. Botany/Plant TaxonomyDr. Carl Weiland (Creationist):
Ph.D. in Medicine/SurgeryDr. Michael Behe (I.D.):
Ph.D. Biochemistry (Professor)William Dembski(I.D.): Professor, Conceptual Foundations of Science, Baylor University; Ph.D. Philosophy, Univerity of Illinois at Chicago; Ph.D. Mathematics
Jonathan Wells(I.D.):
Ph.D. Molecular and Cell Biology, UC Berkeley; Ph.D. Religious Studies, Yale University.These are just a few out of the many, of course.
Impressive, eh? Now, please produce for me the lies they have told and be specific, MrMayo.
Oh yeah, I'm that discipler.
- ********0
2. I.D. is NOT Christian. There are general Theists, Jews and even Muslims I.D. scientists. You are confusing I.D. with Creationism. The only connection is that both question the Darwinian explanation of origins and species to species mutation. Fact.
discipler
(Jun 15 05, 05:29)yeah, stop saying it's just Christians from America TheTick.
I can't argue my points anymore, you know what I think. Let me just sit back and wait for someone to make an absurd comment about some scientific fact. ;)
- Anarchitect0
well
there's no
Creationism here.
thank..... God?
- mrdobolina0
do you know who kent hovind is?
- ********0
And as the fourth day dawns so it begins anew...
Fine, I'll concede a bit that the support for ID is somewhat broader than just certain subsets of american christians, however those making a political stink about it and trying to get it taught in American public schools (elementary and high school level - college/university electives are different. And Bob Jones University DOES NOT count) via the courts are groups that represent and are funded from fundamentalist american christian sources.
Anyone have any evidence that this ID agenda is being forced successfully into curiculums in places outside the US on pure hard data? India? Japan? China? Heck I'll takke France even...well maybe not...
And further by saying Jews, muslims ID scientists ani't saying much to me as they are all religious based on Abraham and the first five books of the Bible....how about Buddhist ID scientists? Hindi? Something outside the Western Judeo-Christian firmamnet who find tre evidence compelling?
I'm sorry you can say all day that ID has nothing to do with the Bible or a Biblical interpretation of reality and I will simply assert that that ain't the truth.
And again Discipler - there is plenty of Biblical scholarship out there that argues against literalist interpretations of the Bible...of which I quoted many above.
- spongebob0
you don't give, do you?
- ********0
Oh - and yeah I do enjoy this thread. You knowhigh level of intellectual babblygook and all that. And good to have your intellectual foes out in the open where you can get at them ;)
And to MrMayo - welcome to the fray...
- lowimpakt0
not that it matters AT ALL but where is there broad support for I.D. theories?
- ********0
What's the old saying, "Follow the money?" Well the site Discipler uses so often is answersingenesis.org. Let's go a-googlin' and a whois'n shall we.
First, looks like the site was founded by a "Brandon Vallorani" from Kentucky.
Site's servers are at gospelcom.net. Hmmm?
Mr. Vallorani is also co-founder of an American Christian publishing company:
http://www.tollelegepress.com/ab…
Oh, and where does Mr. Vallorani show up in the news? Oh here - as a spokesperson for a group that calls for the death penalty of homosexuals:
"Brandon Vallorani, a spokesperson for American Vision, a group dedicated to Christian Reconstructionism that includes supporting the death penalty for homosexuals, declined to be interviewed."
http://www.washblade.com/2005/6-…
Ah. He is also a founder of AmericanVision.org:
http://www.americanvision.org/
Apparently Mr. Vallorani states "His life’s mission is to equip and empower Christians to reclaim America and advance Christ's Kingdom. Brandon and his wife, Jan, now reside in Dallas, Georgia, where they homeschool their three children "
I applaud him for home scooling his children with his values, I plan to do the same. But I wish he would keep his religion out of the public school system.
The group's mission statement is "We’re unique in that we take biblical authority to the next level – applying it to every aspect of our existence."
-----
OK, so looks like a small group of people with a theological and political axe to grind to me. Want to tell me agin that his isn't an American Christian fundamentalist sect's doings?
Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining...
- discipler0
Tick on the issue of the literal interpretation of Genesis and related:
Biblical Interpretation (Ron Rhodes - Professor of Theology):
http://home.earthlink.net/~ronrh…Literal Interpretation of Genesis - (Dr. Gerhard F. Hasel Professor of Old Testament and Biblical Theology):
http://www.grisda.org/origins/21…Genesis: Mythical or Historical? (Dr. Bert Thompson):
http://www.apologeticspress.org/…Should Genesis be Taken Literally? (Russell M. Grigg M.Sc. (Hons.)):
http://www.answersingenesis.org/…
- mrdobolina0
I think discipler has me on ignore.
- discipler0
lowimpakt, get all the info you need here: http://www.ideacenter.org/
- discipler0
no, mrdobs... i'd never do that to you. It's just me and so many of you guys that I miss posts. Now, what?
- ********0
Wow. Shock and surprise. Discipler again refers me to answersingenesis.com for support of a literal interpretation of the the bookj of genesis.
I've been looking at the other sites run by the same people who are listed at your fav site and see whatother organizations they are founding members of and what they are preaching. They are justifying war, violence against homosexuals and other non-christians, a twisting of American history making it's origins into some renewal of the garden of eden...
Look people, The ID thing is only one small part opf a much larger theocratic agenda. And these guys are smart - after getting there ass kicked for about two hundred years in the public they're savvy to how things work. We have to work that much harder to keep this ugly crap form doing to America what it did to Europe for four centuries - turn it into a theocratic.
JazX, look I am all for being open to new theories and ideas, and I am certainly open and even believe in a Creator of all of this, but this is crap.
And look , what other threads does discipler post on? None. I do, you do.
The guys a troll and I wouldn't be surprised if he worked for one of these groups or is connected to them.
- lowimpakt0
i've seen the site.
i just wanted to know if there is recognised popular support, and in what countries.
not that it really matters n'all
- Anarchitect0
"Brandon Vallorani, a spokesperson for American Vision, a group dedicated to Christian Reconstructionism that includes supporting the death penalty for homosexuals, declined to be interviewed."
Creationism supporter exactly how I envision "it".
- discipler0
I'm amused by your conspiracy theories, Tick. :)
Because there are a handful of extremist wackos that are part of an organization, doesn't invalidate the organization as a whole or what it stands for. I'm sure I could google some people who are part of organizations you support that have some wack views, given the time.
Let's believe everything we read on the internets®.
- mrdobolina0
discipler, dont make fun of your christian president's misuse of the word 'internet' :)
- discipler0
but it's phunny.
don't misunderestimate me, dobs.
- ********0
Ideacenter.org, founded by Casey Luskin a law student, and wow - surprise a Christian Fundamentalist.
I'm shocked. And you say the ideas there are independet of an Agenda?
http://www.google.com/search?hl=…
Interesting that evolutionary supporters are from across the philosophical and religious spectrum, but IDpeople and the websites they run are all somehow owned and operated by a connected group of American christian fundamentalists....weird...what are the odds?