feminist?
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- detritus0
Oh Christ, I just conflated Emmeline Pankhurst with Emily Davison, who was a bit of a nutter.
Sorry, Emmeline!
x
- georgesIII0
I find it irritating that none of you ever discuss the information I post,
is it always easier to point the finger and accusing someone of being a cunt while always dismissing what that person has to offer, as I said before I frequent some radical forums and by far qbn is the one where people will always attack you but never ever discuss the subject they think you are wrong about, I know this is a design forum, but it's still hard for me to wrap my head around the facts that they are more open discussions about race/gender/immigrations/wars/et... issue on stormfront than on here,if what I say is wrong not true or even dangerous, why don't you dissect it and call me out for it, instead of always saying george this, george that,
it's fun for a bit but it get annoying,
as of italy they actually have a term called new feminicidio (the inverse of omicidio) which is the classification of when a woman is killed instead of a man, because when a woman is killed it has more weight than when a man does..
but when you look at the stats the number of man that are killed, died from accidents, suicide or work related incident are still far more superior, so where is the equality
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side note(I currently moved to a new country for work and last night I was thinking that it is the 6th country I live and work in, I spent a good total of 5/6th of my life travelling and living around the world, this fuckn sucks because I have this tendency to see things that people completely ignore because they have never been confronted to this situation before, it doesn't mean I'm right every time, it doesn't mean I know everything, it doesn't mean you should listen to what I have to say,
it just means the sum of what I've seen and experienced on this planet is different, from what you have experienced and seen, and at the contrary from some users here, when someone post something that irritates me, I will not call the person names, I'll google what it says and see if there's any truth to it, we have the access to more knowledge than any other generations before us, so why call people name if you could just destroy them with a simple well research rebuttals?
- sometimes they're just adding a post to the thread, and it's not always about discussing what you wrote.monospaced
- I love to discuss things, we have a feminist thread, I get shit on for posting non conformist feminist ideas... wtfgeorgesIII
- yupmonospaced
- detritus0
There are 'more open' discussions about these sort of subjects on those sort of forums particularly because of the types of disaffected and angered people they attract. These are, generally, people who go in with a mindset, on either side, and the energy and wherewithal to confront the issues they choose to focus on.
This, is ostensibly a one-time design forum with a random catchment of peoples and types from all over, who aren't looking for those kind of confrontations. So, not great for the dialogue you seek.
Laterally, however, I'd argue the people here are more grounded and less inclined to simply see a subject from their polarised preconceptions and held-convictions, and are more likely to be found in societies with balance and able to see that the weight and threat that discrimination elements pose isn't anywhere near as overt as you appear to think.
I've lived in three countries, and currently live in a 'world capital' where we have millions of all-sorts, and of all the forces in the world, one of the least I am appalled or concerned by are militant feminists.
- georgesIII0
So let me get it straight,
if a forum discuss a subject that doesn't interest you, it's because they are angry and disaffected,
can't you even see the huge generalisations you are making?
Why can I get some really deep debate on a bodybuilding forum but can't in a design forum, why do I always get personally attacked but the ideas are never, ever discussed,
I believe people here are a lot more extremist in their views because they rarely are open to discuss new subjects or anything they find new and different, they will resort to name calling, every fuckn time,
btw on your third paragraph, are you saying that because people live in a places where discrimination is internalized instead of spoken frankly, there is none? Am I understanding you right?
- No, I'm suggesting that Stormfront possibly attracts more politicking than QBN, for Very Obvious Reasons.detritus
- You're attacked because of your sheer arrogance, your holier than thou mentality, based on utter teeny bopper nonsense.********
- I visit sport forums, feminism forums, music forums, fuckn cooking forums, but only here do I get constantly attacked for just simple ideas and links that noone ever follow throughgeorgesIII
- You assume everyone else is ignorant and stupid because you've read a load of teenage tumblr posts.********
- simple ideas and links that noone ever follow throughgeorgesIII
- yeah, set, I assume everyone is ignorant, bad, smelly and poor, now if you could answer two simple questions, maybe I'd take you seriouslygeorgesIII
- you seriouslygeorgesIII
- How thick can you get? How many times must I repeat myself? Why would I answer those questions?********
- So fucking unfathomably moronic. Read my posts, understand why I don't have answers to your questions.********
- Christ.********
- yeah, so I can only come to the conclusion that you are a troll that doesn't not care about the pseudo equality he preachesgeorgesIII
- detritus0
I'm suggesting that your wealth of worldly experience is shared by others here to varying degrees, so the keen outsider insight you purport to have isn't all that persuasive in and of itself.
- i_monk0
georgesIII : feminist? :: yurimon : religion
- there's more real discussion in the religion thread than here and it is kinda sadgeorgesIII
- that's because you have polluted this thread with absolute drivel********
- georgesIII0
so discuss the damm subject, how hard can it be,
if everyone has such a large sum of experiences why is it so hard to discuss such a simple subject as feminist,
why do you keep coming back to me, detritus?
Also what I tried to explain that you totally glossed over was that by moving around for the past 25 years, I may have seen and experienced diverse things from someone that has lived in the same place it's entire life, not that I'm so high and mighty, but just that the sum of my experiences are a lot different than the sum of others,now if only you could discuss feminism now, that would be so swell
- what did you want to discuss about it?monospaced
- He doesn't want to discuss, he wants to tell.********
- And I'm saying that other people have travelled widely too and probably see things differently to you —detritus
- I know, shocking, isn't it?
I'm not sure how much clearer I can be.detritus - He just wants those opinions instead of an insult.monospaced
- mono has found a kindred spirit********
- ukit20
Georges, since you are talking about facts how big of a movement do you think "radical feminism" is? What percentage of women are radical feminist? Do you honestly see it as a serious threat?
I think most people who call themselves feminists just want the same thing other people want...equal rights and dignity. We can all come up with crazy stories about individual people, but they are just anecdotes and not necessarily representative of anything. But I'd be curious to see the actual numbers if you have them. Maybe there is a big wave of hateful anti-male feminism out there that the rest of us are totally missing.
- ********0
You keep talking about people attacking you Georges, but I came in to say that we don't need feminism, we need equality... which I thought was basically what you were saying... and you attacked me for it?
"now you talk about bullshit equality in your terms to make you look like you are well centered, but you aren't for equality, if you were you would be discussing it?"
Excuse me?
And you wonder why you're not well received.
- ********0
Your holier than thou, assume everyone else is stupid mentality doesn't call for proper discussion at all.
- georgesIII0
@mono,
I posted so many links, so many articles trying to show the not so good face of modern feminism, links disproving the repeated notions that women in moder societies are treated less than men,but instead of getting serious rebuttals or contrary point of views, all I got was a creepy stalker name calling me and telling me I'm full of shit, I'm apparently so full of shit and so high on my horse that he will not dare to expand on what are his views on feminism and egalitarianism.. but yet tells me he shares my views on feminism.
So here is one question I would at least like to be answered:
Is modern feminism more detrimental or good for women in the first world?
- I've already stated my views in this thread, your just too conceited to have registered them.********
- you're********
- Been there, got the t-shirt. See the 'Science' threadMorning_star
- Georges, are you open to anyone who has only opinions without articles to back them up?monospaced
- Personally I feel the feminist movement is more detrimental as it makes some implications that women are still weakmonospaced
- And I do agree that it's turned into somewhat a double standard toward menmonospaced
- I've already stated my views in this thread, your just too conceited to have registered them.
- i_monk0
It's called confirmation bias. If you're inclined to see Muslims as violent, or men as rapists, or feminists as lunatics, you'll only note the ones that confirm this bias and dismiss the rest.
- georgesIII0
@ukit,
should I call you names, should I say that you are holier than thou and you are full of it, should I evade your question and just say you are a half wit? no, I will just answer your question, like a normal fuckn person should,for me it comes down to the wrong idea that if you are for equal right for woman you are a feminist, I believe rad fem starting in the late 70 completely subverted the idea of feminism and too if from a place of giving more equal right to female gender to a place where men are a poison and a danger to all woman (btw this only apply to white cis males) [read dworkian work, I posted some links some page down]
being for equal right means a lot more for me than just quotas and privileges, it means that you will be treated with respect but you will not get a fast lane because of your gender, color, creed, age, country of provenience,
equal rights for me means that everyone will be given the same chances but the person most qualified for the position should get the position,
now modern feminism has subverted that, they want quotas, but just for minorities and women, they want less jail time, but only if you are a women, they want harder rape charges but only if the rapist is a man, they want so many things that are diametrically opposed to what I egalitarianism is that I wonder why most of the people I read this rehash the point that feminism is for equality when in fact there a long road filled with breadcrumbs that proves the contrary
was it hard for me to write this? no, so how hard it is to take a look at the link I post and just discuss them
- ukit doesn't come across as full of it and holier than thou, though. You do...********
- I don't think this is a holier than thou thing, he's simply pointing out a strong hypothesis for what's going onmonospaced
- bonnet blanc, blanc bonnetgeorgesIII
- it's a solid assessment backed up with evidence, but only slightly preachymonospaced
- no mono, you are WRONG, I know fuckn everything, I'm GOD ffsgeorgesIII
- I agree with you Georges... my company often feels anti-male the way it has embraced the PC'ness of feminismmonospaced
- Georges, I never attacked you in this thread, ever.monospaced
- ukit doesn't come across as full of it and holier than thou, though. You do...
- monospaced0
Whenever I'm on a project that's female-dominated, I often feel that if I don't put enough exclamation marks in my emails — "Hey! Thanks for sending that so fast!! Happy holidays!!!!" — or fail to put a smiley face after giving feedback — "Looks good, but let's fix the typos, please. :) :)" — to them, I am eventually pegged as unfriendly.
Result of feminism? Not sure.
- I feel like they are all about equality, but can't be treated like it's just business sometimes, like i would with a man.monospaced
- treat business as business... Don't let them slags get to you mono!!!
:) :) :) !!!!!goldieboy - haha I know what you mean, though possibly it's all in your (our) heads.********
- no it's not in our heads... at least here I've actually been accusedmonospaced
- it's an actual problem of over-sensitiity, over political-correctnes... and treating work like a preschool development centermonospaced
- <-- sexual harassment.monNom
- we're adults, put adult thick skin on and let's do some work ffs... and don't assume I'm curt just because I didn't say Thanks!!!!!!!monospaced
- *sighmonospaced
- Just wanted to let you know that you can go ahead and make thanks optional.Just FYI. THANKS!!!!!!!cannonball1978
- ukit20
georges, I think maybe you are mixing together a few different issues here. The idea of quotas or "affirmative action" is not really a radical feminist idea or anything new. More of a mainstream social liberal idea. It's nice to say that we are all equal but if you have a social group that has been denied education and property rights for hundreds of years by the government and was just given them yesterday, there's a good argument for the government trying to correct that imbalance.
On the other hand when you talk about women's lives being treated as more valuable or women serving less time in jail for the same crime, who is actually proposing that and is anyone taking it seriously? That's why I was asking how many radical feminists are actually out there that hold the most extreme positions you keep posting about. If its a tiny minority, then yeah we can agree they are crazy, but hopefully we also agree there are bigger problems in the world.
Of course a more general critique of feminism would be coming from reactionaries and social conservatives generally who think that liberalism in general has been bad, and that we should go back to a more traditional patriarchal society. Personally I think these people are idiots because social change is always relative, so the era they remember as acceptable was probably viewed as radical by their parents. But you say you are an egalitarian so I'm guessing you don't agree with those people.
- georgesIII0
I believe the reason you are saying what you are saying is because you haven't followed as precisely as I did the rise of 3rd wave feminism and SJWs and their power to demolish anyone or anything they believe is contrary to their beliefs.
my point isn't to say feminism baaad, but to show (what I've been trying to do for months) that 2nd/3rd wave of feminism isn't about equality but dominance,
we can discuss ad nauseum the number of girls that considers themselves feminists but aren't aligned with the views expressed by the loud voices of their movement. but that's for another time because..
(I believe) some people just can't accept that what they know about the public face of feminism is quite different to what some of the most vocal feminist are saying and have been saying for decades,the thing is you can not say I'm mixing a few subjects when those subjects are tied together at the roots (marxism/socialism) and have pretty much worked in parallel (PDF) http://www-a.ibit.uni-oldenburg.…
by the way you will note that the pdf is just a good introduction to feminism and in no way is critical to it,
another point, you say that those who view modern feminism are reactionary and social conservative, people who want to bring the women back to the kitchen (traditional pat. society). If you read some history, you will realize that for centuries the patriarchy kept men and women down and only a few at the very top could called themselves truly free, you will also see that a good majority of 1st, 2nd and 3rd wave feminists are upper class women (sorry for the rotk link, but it's a good summary http://www.returnofkings.com/816… ), and register to read some more here, http://www.jstor.org/discover/10… (excellent read btw, even if a little dated)
but ounce again I have to say that this has nothing to do with social change or wanting to keep women down, once you start delving into the material with a non biased mind where you can read the cons and not only the pros, you start seeing a completely different image of that movement.
