sam harris
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- gramme0
And I can't even question it, for some reason, I need to have respect for your superstitious beliefs because you are the majority religion in my country.
Interesting thought for you to ponder, do you think you would be christian if you were born in Saudi Arabia?
mrdobolina
(Oct 5 06, 09:59)Dobs, I never said you should curb your opinions. I just think that in general you could be a lot more respectful about how you phrase things. It seems that you take pride in making inflammatory statements in order to bait people like flagellum. That's what I meant.
And I am certainly not a part of the majority, I don't meet very many people claiming to be Christians who actually practice their faith. Calling oneself a Christian and not backing it up with action would be like me saying that I'm a baseball player but never pick up a bat.
- flagellum0
And I can't even question it, for some reason, I need to have respect for your superstitious beliefs because you are the majority religion in my country.
Interesting thought for you to ponder, do you think you would be christian if you were born in Saudi Arabia?
mrdobolina
(Oct 5 06, 09:59)mrdobolina, your belief that an endless regression of blind natural causes ultimately produced intelligent life, is superstitious to me. (though i'm sure you haven't defined your belief as well as i have for you here).
And you seem to interpret trust based on evidence as = superstition. Despite the fact that even atheists commit this superstition every day.
And becoming a Christian in Saudi... it and stranger things have happened. ;)
- ********0
So what are you gramme, a pitcher?
- woodyBatts0
Science points to something that is not readily explained. You may call that God, and that is totally cool. But taking a position saying that Faith is based on belief and science on proof is not dishonest.
Because then you are calling me dishonest.
- gramme0
Deuteronomy 13
acescence
(Oct 5 06, 10:06)ascescnce, I don't have a Bible in front of me (I'm not in the habit of carrying it in to work), but if it is clearly sanctioned by God in this passage, then it is an example of Old-Testament death penalty by jury. The new covenant in the New Testament, sealed by Jesus' death & resurrection, is based on grace instead of law. That's why the NT isn't nearly as violent.
- flagellum0
woody: my position is simple: I believe that scientific evidence points to deliberate design in the universe.
I also believe that historical evidence points to the Bible as being factually correct.
I therefore conclude that the Biblical God is an excellent candidate for the designing intelligence which science implicates.
- gramme0
So what are you gramme, a pitcher?
flavorful
(Oct 5 06, 10:08)Well, I know what I believe and I stand by it, hopefully while listening to and respecting other people who see things differently. Are you suggesting that I don't back up what I believe with action? Because very often I don't, you would be right in assuming that I'm far from perfect. I make mistakes every day, but my growing desire to do anything good comes from a supernatural source. So whenever I do something good that goes against my selfish nature, it's because of a divine gift, notbecause of any merit I possess. Does that make sense?
And for the record, I have no personal problems with you, flavorful. I just happen to disagree, hopefully that's ok and we can all act like adults...
- acescence0
even if i were to see irrefutable evidence, my brain has been hopelessly programmed with knee-jerk rejection as a result of 35 years force-fed christianity from my family. i'm doomed either way, i guess.
- TheBlueOne0
Not once have I encountered someone who professed to be a follower of Christ who also "hated fags",
flagellum
(Oct 5 06, 10:00)I don't think you get out enough. Next time there's a Gay Pride parade here in New York I'd be happy to show you all the "christian protestors" with the "You're Going to Hell" Signs.
I get handed litereature of this sort daily walking around NYC. I can only imagine it's worse in say, some of the more bible belt states.
And I see it as fundamentalism and not christianity, but they call themselves followers of Jesus nonetheless..
- woodyBatts0
Flagellum, if I disagree with that, does that make me dishonest?
- TheBlueOne0
I do happen to see the Bible as a collection of myths, superstitions and a healthy dose of challenging ethical and spiritual connundrums. with no easy answers.
i will insist my children read it, as it underlies much of Western civilization and thought.
I see it as one particualr spiritual narrative that humanity has come up with.
I believe that those that believe in their chosen faith/creed to the detriment of others are ethically and morally evil. But as long as it doesn't pick my pocket or break my leg, and it gets you through the night, believe what you want, and I'd be happy to talk about it...
- gramme0
even if i were to see irrefutable evidence, my brain has been hopelessly programmed with knee-jerk rejection as a result of 35 years force-fed christianity from my family. i'm doomed either way, i guess.
acescence
(Oct 5 06, 10:20)I totally understand, I used to feel the exact same way. Preacher's kid and all that. Anything can change though...
- pavlovs_dog0
I mean, who cares? Let people believe what they will if we're all just going to return to dust and there's nothing more than the 70 years we spend here on this marble.
flagellum
(Oct 5 06, 07:33
- TheBlueOne0
And Flagellum, I would urge you to check out these books, you might find them interesting in your investigations:
- flagellum0
blueOne: I question whether those people are truly regerate Christians. Since they are acting in a thoroughly un-Christlike manner. The Bible speaks clearly about those who profess the name of Christ, but who do not have a saving relationship with him. (Matthew Ch. 7)
Fundamentalism, essentially means to get back to the core truths or fundamentals of something. Depending on those core fundamentals, fundamentalism can be a very good or very bad thing.
- gramme0
Our language conveys less meaning each day.
*sets sail for France in a rowboat
- gramme0
*gets lunch first.
- flagellum0
Thanks, for the recommendation. Those look interesting and the titles both remind of:
http://www.amazon.com/Programmin…
http://www.amazon.com/Privileged…
- flagellum0
Flagellum, if I disagree with that, does that make me dishonest?
woodyBatts
(Oct 5 06, 10:23)Not if your conclusion is based on an honest investigation of the facts.
- woodyBatts0
Then I disagree with you.