sam harris
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- mrdobolina0
right on woody.
I don't think religious people are evil, I just think they are being hoodwinked.
- acescence0
ascenece: God's love does not mean he is permissive of evil. God's love does not negate his righteousness wrath against a sinful, narcisistic humans. After all, we deserve his wrath (the same Bible teaches this) and it's only thru the loving sacrifice of his son that we freely receive his favor. The Law of the OT pointed to the individual's need for a savior. It demonstrated God's wrath and his requirement of perfection.
Both those requirements were satisfied on the cross.
flagellum
(Oct 5 06, 09:37)god's wrath is one thing, but this is man judging man, man killing man, sanctioned by god.
- gramme0
I'm sorry you feel that way, parseInteger. Of course the Bible is full of violence, it's human history and parable. Humans have never needed the help of religion to be violent, though they have often MISAPPROPRIATED it for a selfish cause.
If you dig deeper, you'll find that there is no lack of logic, the differences between the Old & New Testament are not contradictory since they are based on two different covenants, the second being the fulfillment of the first.
I don't know any Christians who enjoy war. I know many that are Republicans, and many that have ideas on foreign policy that I DISAGREE with, but none that would condone violence. There are some people who condone violence that claim to be Christians, but really all their doing is making an attempt to fit supernatural agendas into the realm of the human and finite. Things always fall apart when people do that.
I personally believe that the world will end one day, though I'm not exactly sure how. There is a lot of metaphor in Revelation, so much of it is obviously not meant to be taken literally, besides the general notion that the world will end sooner or later, a new, perfect one will replace it, and that in this new world all imperfection will be done away with.
- woodyBatts0
I actually agree dobs.
- flavorful0
You ignore people on NT?
That was perfect.
You ignore facts, you ignore your own religious leaders'/religion's double standards, why not start ignoring people for cracking jokes too.
Look I'm Irish-Catholic, and I guess I have my cake and eat it too, but the rhetoric you spew out is sickening.
On one hand you call the entire Muslim Religion comprised of men and made up of myths, yet you don't see the astounding logic that ... the Christian faith is comprised of men, and made up of myths (parables; does that sound better to you?).
- gramme0
god's wrath is one thing, but this is man judging man, man killing man, sanctioned by god.
acescence
(Oct 5 06, 09:50)Really? I didn't get the memo that Scripture had been updated.
- gramme0
dobs, you and everyone else who does not eschew to Christianity have my blessing to think whatever you like. But let's all try to be respectful, shall we? Even when people on here give me crap about what I believe, I still try to shake it off and be civil, no matter what.
- flavorful0
I'm glad they have your blessing gramme.
Are you like the Jesus of the PVN or something?
:D
- TheBlueOne0
You know, christianity comes in all flavors and interpretations, and the mistake along many of us who tend to reject it, is to paint all christians with the same brush (heck, they've been killing each other over the differnces themselves for two millenium now).
That said, alot of the criticisms thrown at Flagellum here seem to come from the mythical christian lump, and not neccessarily Flags particular beliefs. So I think he ends up defending himself more than neccessary, and defending his view of christianity when you guys are throwing different criticisms of it from people that hold different beliefs about the religion.
e.g. I don't neccessarily think Flag is of the "fag-hater" variety, although he'll gladly tell you why homosexuality probably isn't accepted in a biblical view, he's not vehemently insane about the point. So when you guys ask him to defend those points of christianity that you find odious, he probably doesn't subscribe to those radical points himself.
However, i think he's whacked with his interpretations of science vis-vis scripture.
- acescence0
god's wrath is one thing, but this is man judging man, man killing man, sanctioned by god.
acescence
(Oct 5 06, 09:50)Really? I didn't get the memo that Scripture had been updated.
gramme
(Oct 5 06, 09:52)yes, men stoning other men to death for what they believe to be acts of heresy. judge, jury, and executioner, commanded by god.
- flagellum0
The reason that mrdobolina's position is a dishonest one, is because he hasn't personally investigated the supporting evidence for that which he rejects and ridicules.
- gramme0
Flavorful, just so we're clear, most of the people that you are familiar with as "Christian leaders" are not considered Christian leaders in my book. I know you aren't picking a fight with me, I just wanted to let you know not all people who call themselves Christians are Right-wing members of the NRA...though of course we might all differ on our definition of 'Right Wing'...
- woodyBatts0
I don't think separating belief from science is a dishonest position.
- mrdobolina0
Like it or not, your religion enters my world more often than my lack of religion enters yours.
And I can't even question it, for some reason, I need to have respect for your superstitious beliefs because you are the majority religion in my country.
Interesting thought for you to ponder, do you think you would be christian if you were born in Saudi Arabia?
- Seff0
what supporting evidence?
with supporting evidence faith would become fact. which it does not
- flagellum0
I've been a Christian for about 14 years and I've been in all manner of churches and met thousands of professing believers. Not once have I encountered someone who professed to be a follower of Christ who also "hated fags", or went to KKK rallies, wanted to bomb abortion clinics, etc... The people here at NT often times just regurgitate unwarranted caricatures that don't reflect reality in any way.
- flavorful0
Religious Leaders of the Christian Faith to me are the Pope, Cardinals, et cetera.
- gramme0
yes, men stoning other men to death for what they believe to be acts of heresy. judge, jury, and executioner, commanded by god.
acescence
(Oct 5 06, 09:56)Could you please point me to where that was sanctioned by God? Just because something is recorded as an event in the Bible, it does not mean that God sanctioned it unless that passage explicitly says it was God's will. Let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater.
- flagellum0
I don't think separating belief from science is a dishonest position.
woodyBatts
(Oct 5 06, 09:58)Science and faith are fully compatible. Science points towards a powerful designing intelligence. My personal view is that God is a good candidate.
- acescence0
Deuteronomy 13