sam harris
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- mrdobolina0
And homosexuals don't like being called "fags" as I recall. So don't do that. And God loves homosexuals with a relentless passionate love. So much so that Christ died for them. ...and you... and me.
flagellum
(Oct 5 06, 09:02)Who told you this?
- flagellum0
blueOne:
The problem with the hypothesis that non-cognizant material forces produced life is the problem of specificity. Those realities demonstrate purpose in their specificity. The code in DNA constructs ribosomes for a specific function and purpose. These phenomenon are goal-oriented in other words. We don't see inanimate materials producing goal-oriented, information rich structures and phenomena.
- flagellum0
mrdobolina: which part? The Jesus loving people part?
The Bible told me so. ;)
- woodyBatts0
Dob,
That's in the bible dude. Christ loves us all ( according to the bible ) it's that last book ( Revelations ) that most people pick and choose from which makes christ appear wrathful and vengeful.
- Mimio0
Supernatural beliefs and "not knowing" make them lead to god.
That's precisely why I'm skeptical. I'd rather place faith in the idea that people will be able to explain it better in the future using natural means as our knowledge expands. I think Human history has done this time and time again. Science is always in the process of demystifying our experiences.
- mrdobolina0
is the bible the infallible word of god? And how do you know that?
- acescence0
the bible also tells you:
If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
- flagellum0
Mimio: It has been recently said that the same science that killed God has now resurrected him. I would say that it has been gradually revealing his handiwork all along. The deeper we delve into both Biology and Cosmology, the louder the scream of Design gets. Rather than demystifying, science seems to raise more conundrums with each new discovery. However the overarching theme is always design.
- woodyBatts0
I'm not saying it's fallible or infallible, i'm just saying that it's in the bible that christ says he loves everyone.
it's a matter of faith whether or not you believe it to be "true" or not.
I'm just trying to be objective.
- mrdobolina0
woody, I like you a lot. But I don't think you are really being objective.
People could have faith that Justin Timberlake is the second coming of christ. Doesn't make it so.
- flagellum0
acescence: ripping Old Testament legal regulations out of context is not going to serve you well in a discussion with me. It is understand by those with even a cursory understanding Biblical hermeneutics that, during the OT covenant period, God gave a contentious and rebellious nomadic people over to their ways and thus regulations like the one you cited out of context, were established for a time.
- flagellum0
That wouldn't make it so, mrdobolina, because of the lack of evidence for Justin as the returning savior. You don't seem to grasp that people have faith in the Biblical message because of it's time-tested historical accuracy and support.
- mrdobolina0
So the OT was used to govern people then?
- TheBlueOne0
Flagellum, I'm not going to argue this particular point with you anymore. I think your view of science is, if not flawed, far too narrow in scope, and their is no fruit to be born with respect to this line of discussion/argument as we've been down this road a zillion times. So I won't engage you on it.
Suffice to say, that it is my belief, based on the evidence I weigh and judge and am aware of, counter to yours, that matter has the ability to self-organzie into what we know of as life. And I find a deep spiritual satisfaction and sublimity in that line of thought - that we are in fact an expected and ineveitable part of the uiniverse itself, and not some additional creation by some god who seems anthropomorphically in our image.
However, I'd be happy to discuss the ethical and philosophical implications of leading a life according the precepts of Jesus, who I think created a powerful and useful system of ethics. Given I was raised Roman Catholic, although no longer proscribe to it (although ritually I do find comfort in it from time to time), I'm at a different place than you in my exploration/conclusions about christianity.
But this is all just me.
- mrdobolina0
That wouldn't make it so, mrdobolina, because of the lack of evidence for Justin as the returning savior. You don't seem to grasp that people have faith in the Biblical message because of it's time-tested historical accuracy and support.
flagellum
(Oct 5 06, 09:12)Please explain...
Also please explain why the bible trumps the koran, both books were written by men.
- Mimio0
flagellum, even though you and I just had this conversation you're still continuing to say that science demonstrates supernatural causation. That doesn't add up, it's not science.
- acescence0
Old Testament legal regulations? that's Deuteronomy, the word of God, you heretic.
- woodyBatts0
Dobs,
Maybe we're not connecting.
You asked if God hates f--s. Flagellum said that yes Christ does. You sid "Where does it say that?" I said "it does say that in the bible" in the bible it says christ loves everyone in john 3:16
That's all i was trying to say, nothing more.
If there was a miscommunication, my bad. I just feel that people are willing to believe what they believe whether it be jesus or the spaghetti monster, as long as it doesn't mess with me or you.
- TheBlueOne0
The deeper we delve into both Biology and Cosmology, the louder the scream of Design gets. Rather than demystifying, science seems to raise more conundrums with each new discovery. However the overarching theme is always design.
flagellum
(Oct 5 06, 09:08)
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Actually not far off from Newton and Bacon actually...Science did begin as a spiritual quest...
and I do believe it should remain so. Flagellum we just disagree about the divinity we're revealing. I believe the "divinity" is found with in the connections and complexity of the matter itself - thus eliminating the need for a "god on nigh" - while you seem to favor it coming form an outside source..
- flagellum0
blueOne: I understand. Of course I'm compelled to respond, you know. The difficulty is that matter has never been shown to self-organize into life. It's an unwarranted myth. Even the Miller_Urey experiments, with the vigorous intervention of intelligent scientists, couldn't do it. This fact combined with the specificity of living systems, smacks of something different. Something cognizant. And if we apply Occams' Razor, the best explanation is a designing intelligence. Because in every realm of experience we have, intelligence is behind life. Biogenesis is an established fact - life comes from life. Additionally, you end up with an endless regress of finite causes if you opt for some sort of material explanation. This is logical suicide.
The inference to intelligence is warranted from every direction.