QBNners in Turkey !!
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- eryx0
@Beeswax
From your last post it seems the main issue is the need for strong leadership in order to not create a power vacuum which would result in a divide in fundamentalist and non-fundamentalist islamic groups. Is Erdogan the guy to do this? I am also wondering how secular is he? Also you seem to have an issue with the idea of “puppet country” being created if there is a Kurdistan. If the West is not involved in the shaping of this new country who would be the alternative? There seem to be a ton of Fundamentalist countries that are very powerful in the region that would push for a islamic state and frankly I think a lot of western countries fear that to the point that they will try and influence any change in the region as much as they can.
I have never been to that region of the world and everything that I do know about the area is filtered by western media so I really do no know much about life there. But what I understand is that there is a big fear of islam in the west both by secular and non-secular people. I don’t think the motivation of the west would be to turn Turkey or the proposed Kurdistan “Christian”. Rather I think the motivation would be to keep it from becoming fundamentalist state.
Again I might be talking out of my ass but I would like to hear your insights into this. Really interesting having your perspective on this, thanks for sharing.
- I think it's pretty well known Erdogan is an Islamic hardliner. And Islam seems to like how things were way back when. So I assume he'll go in that direction.robotron3k
- Beeswax1
I'll recollect my previous notes here.
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"Kurdistan" currently indicates the geographical area where Kurds live. But there has never been a Kurdistan country. Right now Iraqi Kurdistan is a regional government connected to Iraq.
Before WWI it was under Ottoman rule before it was Byzantine rule before that under Persian Empire. I'm not against it, but it's being designed to be another puppet country like some other middle east ones. The more you divide this area the more problems occur. But I'm all for doing a referendum and give it to the will of the people.
The main problem is that the area is not only home to Kurds. There are several religious divisions, Arabs, Turkmens etc. It might also start another shitstorm.Erdogan's ideal is a Neo-Ottoman state with different cultures living together in an expanded territory. That's why he's against Turkish nationalism too. Couple of years ago they removed the abbreviation T.C (Turkish Republic) from the title of all government organizations. So like, US Department of Justice became only Department of Justice. They are trying to erase Turkish Republic from everywhere.
The West doesn't like this Neo-Ottoman ideal at all. But they will fool him into this idea like they fooled him in Syria. I don't know who promised him this but at the beginning of Syrian conflict, he wasn't embarrassed to say "Soon we will pray in Damascus"
So if I'm not wrong, with this failed coup d'état attempt, they will have him to get all the power. While he's messing up the constitution and stirring the country they will pull him down. This will create a power gap in the Country and whatever can be done will be done.
Our unity has been severed like no other time. Since AKP is ruling country is massively polarized, army is weakened, justice system is off balance and constitution is getting fucked up.
I'm a secular muslim but they paint people like me as anti-islam. This tension can easily turn us into a partition like happened in Yugoslavia after Tito or Iraq after Saddam.
- sarahfailin0
hey beeswax. glad you're ok! i'm not sure what you're saying about Kurdistan though. Are you saying it's part of Erdogan's agenda to surrender part of Turkey to a Kurdish state? Or that the West is trying to orchestrate the re-creation of a Kurdish state?
My understanding has always been that Kurdistan used to exist before WWI, but then was dismantled, by Britain and other European countries, when the nations of Iraq, Syria etc. were drawn out by them. Of course they did this without any thought or knowledge of the history or interests of the people in the region.
Based on this, I've always thought the Kurds *ought* to have have their own country. Do you disagree? Thanks!
- Kurdistan is an area where Kurds live. But there has never been a Kurdistan country. Right now Iraqi Kurdistan is a regional government connected to Iraq.Beeswax
- Before WWI it was under Ottoman rule before it was Byzantine rule before that under Persian Empire. I'm not against it but it's being designed to be anotherBeeswax
- puppet country like some other middle east ones.The more you divide this area the more problems occur. But I'm all for doing a referendum and give it to theBeeswax
- will of the people. The problem is the area is not only home to Kurds. There are religious divisions, Turkmens, Arabs etc. It might also start another shitstormBeeswax
- Erdogan's ideal is a neo-ottoman state with different cultures living together in an expanded territory. That's why he's against Turkish nationalism tooBeeswax
- But West doesn't like this ideal at all. They will fool him into this idea like they did in Syria. So As Admiral Akbar says "It's a trap!"Beeswax
- wow very interesting points! thanks. I need to do more research.sarahfailin
- Longcopylover0
I always thought I was quite good in understanding what is going on in world politics. But I think I just don't get it anymore. I start being indifferent. There's just too much shit going on to follow. And the worth thing is, I am asking myself whether it Is it still worth to bring children into this kind of fucked up world.
I feel sad.- *worst thingLongcopylover
- take a crash course off yurigeorges. if he/they are still around.fadein11
- Hey ORAZALeryx
- I'm not Orazal. Are you yuri?Longcopylover
- Sorry if your not but you were certified by a guy with like 100 accounts. It can make one doubt of your identity.eryx
- i'm not having kids! join the new wavesarahfailin
- I was certified by isleptwithsirenstoni... I don't know whether this is ORAZAL. I just don't care either. I think we are done with this who is who troll shit.Longcopylover
- HijoDMaite0
Also,
"COUP D'ÉTAT...."
Ahhh, feels good to say the entire phrase. Make America say the full phrase again.
- putsch!sarahfailin
- Wow!! Turkey is returning to Islamic state and it has Hydrogen bomb stockpile!! Not good news for Europe at all. We have problems in USA but not like this.robotron3k
- ^tf are you talking about?sarahfailin
- sarahfailin1
http://www.reuters.com/article/u…
At the height of the attempt to overthrow Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan, the rebel pilots of two F-16 fighter jets had Erdogan's plane in their sights. And yet he was able to fly on.
The Turkish leader was returning to Istanbul from a holiday near the coastal resort of Marmaris after a faction in the military launched the coup attempt on Friday night, sealing off a bridge across the Bosphorus, trying to capture Istanbul's main airport and sending tanks to parliament in Ankara.
"At least two F-16s harassed Erdogan's plane while it was in the air and en route to Istanbul. They locked their radars on his plane and on two other F-16s protecting him," a former military officer with knowledge of the events told Reuters.
"Why they didn't fire is a mystery," he said.
- GeorgesII-1
holy shit, don't let him get the fuckn nukes!!
- Beeswax9
I'm back after getting stuck at the Airport.
IT WAS CRAZY!!!
No one knew what to do. I was flying from south of Turkey to Istanbul with my wife. And we started watching Tanks pulling off in front of the Istanbul's main airport. We waited in the bus to go to our plane but then things got more serious in Istanbul. The bridges and the roads were closed and military declared curfew.
On government channel a really scared looking women announced that the military took control. We decided not to leave where we are since we could have stock at the airport in Istanbul. Then our planes got cancelled. We waited for luggages.
In the meantime everybody was passing news to each other.
We found a shuttle back to my parents home.
And then they said the coup attempt is unsuccessfull.
But now we get some news that Turkish parliament got hit by rockets aimed from Military helicopters.
Also some pro-government people are on the streets celebrating the return of their Supreme leader Erdogan.
In social media people are saying this whole thing was a production for Erdogan to tighten his grip over the country.- Errogan lost control.Hayoth
- Holy fucking cowsDRIFTMONKEY
- I'm glad you're ok man, keep safemaquito
- damnmoldero
- Ffffuuuuusarahfailin
- i don't know much about turkish politics but is the military a better choice? Ie. more secular or less? stay safehotroddy
- There's a chance it's Erdogans trick to strengthen his authority.stewart
- all the best to you and your family and hope all are safe.fadein11
- Thanks people. Even if I don't know you, it's really nice to hear your wishes. The aftermath looks pretty terrible. And we don't know what's coming up.Beeswax
- It was surreal. And it still is. Economy will get hurt really badly. Tourism was already in crisis now completely finished. More so, this gave Erdogan a big oppBeeswax
- to rule the country singlehandedly. Whoever criticises government will be labeled "putschist". Only pro-gov newspapers were printed today. Sucks.Beeswax
- Stay safe bees!sea_sea
- feel1
:(
- detritus0
Eish.. beheadings on the bridge over the Bosphorus and some nasty footage of people vs. tanks on LiveLeak. i hope for his own soul and conscience that Erdogan wasn't behind this.
The whole affair seems remakably underconsidered and ineffectual otherwise though - what were they thinking?
- Gnash0
"Turkish PM: Any country that stands by cleric Gulen will be at war with Turkey"
http://www.reuters.com/article/u…
I wonder if Erdogan thinks that Gulen living in the Poconos means that the usa is standing with him
- Turkey shut down the biggest US base in Turkey for a couple of hours.Obama is meeting with security council. There will prolly be talks about sending Gulen backBeeswax
- crazy times. erdogan will take full advantage - hope things don't get too much worse.Gnash
- hope you and your family are wellGnash
- I hope President Obama is doing his best to secure US nukes based in Turkey. Very inflammatory statement knowing he lives in the US.IRNlun6
- ^ exactly, IRN.Gnash
- _niko0
How can this be a coup attempt by an Islamic leader when the army is traditionally staunchly secular?
- yep I was wondering the same.fadein11
- the military coup is meant to topple the leader. military = secular, Erdogan = Islamic leaderHijoDMaite
- ^ nope you are missing the point - the coup was supposedly led by a religious faction of the army (which yes was thought to be secular)fadein11
- Reporter forced to make a statement on behalf of military coup also said they want to restore constitutional order. Really strange sequence of events.IRNlun6
- Thats because the religious faction is moderate and not radical.yurimon
- sarahfailin9
This is why we need QBN threads for specific world events of significance. I heard it here first!
- Beeswax1
The whole thing is a scenario put by Erdogan and his team.
Remember Bush using 9/11 and claiming Iraq has WMD's that got him two terms of whitehouse?
Play victim and exploit fears if you want power in politics.
- Bennn0
Also today, it has been officially stated that there's no proofs of the implication of the Saudis in the 9/11 attack.... victims families were in court on this since years and classified documents has been released today...
What a week!
- Also US gave permission for UN troops to intervene in other nations.yurimon
- ernexbcn2
This coup lasted less than my siesta. This reeks of self coup by Erdogan to get rid of enemies and tighten his grip
- utopian0
- Just when we thought it was over now the website of Turkish Military announced that they seized the country.Beeswax
- I'm expecting Erdogan will show up ona channel in 10 minutes and will say that everything is in order and Government is still the head of the country.Beeswax
- I'm watching CNN Turk and they are broadcasting an empty studio with some yelling in the background.Beeswax
- HijoDMaite0
@beeswax
wtf? reports are conflicting all over the place. some saying coup is over it failed but i'm seeing live reports that parliament in Ankara was bombed from air and that coup helicopter is still flying over the capital.
- There's one helicopter flying around and shooting at the parliament building but it hasn't been shot down for two hours and TV channels are broadcasting it liveBeeswax
- Hayoth-7
Exciting and dangerous time in the world. Obama's Gonna be pissed his bff is being targeted.
