Dall-E, Midjourney, Stable Diffusion (etc) - who's playing, and with which?
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- yuekit1
Speaking of copyright...the copyright on Mickey Mouse has now officially expired as of today. You can all draw this now and there's nothing they can do about it.
https://www.scmp.com/lifestyle/e…
- cubanhaze3
^
@phanlo
Wow looks awesomeCan i ask-
How do you “ai it”?
Do u upload your sketch into MJ and prompt it ie, this img but make it look like plastic guts?Or whats the best workflow for using a sketch as a strating point then fucking with it in ai?
- PhanLo2
Doodled out a VR painting then used it as a base to make a messy abstract composition then AI'd it with the plastic guts style
It was six 1024x1024 images masked fairly badly together in Photoshop.
I reckon I'll use it as a reference and redraw it with markers over the next couple of days.
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- I like how with this one the graffiti influence comes through more with the numbers, it's an interesting mix of styles.qoob
- SimonFFM1
Has anyone of you tried this engine yet?
The results look too good to be true. Unfortunately, you have to subscribe. There's no way in trying out one photo first.
- You get a few photos to test when you sign up. The upscaler is pretty goodPhanLo
- I did not get anything to test and I am not subscribing as AI is not my thing. But it was nice to see this stuff.SimonFFM
- Simon, I've been using it since Beta. The creator keeps chucking me additional credits too ;)
it is great with things it KNOWS!microkorg - So you'd be laughing with photography.
When it comes to really abstract stuff it kinda struggles a bit. But as long as you describe exactly what you wantmicrokorg - within the prompt section you can get amazing results.
I've been working on a series of 23 collage works that I'll show when done.microkorg
- HAL90014
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business…
"New York Times sues OpenAI, Microsoft for copyright infringement.
The New York Times is suing OpenAI and Microsoft, accusing them of using millions of the newspaper's articles without permission to help train artificial intelligence (AI) technologies."
------AI is literally stealing all the world's creations and make robots regurgitate content based on keywords typed by people who spend a few days or months (few hours!) learning how to type effective "prompts"...
These people are often stealing their prompts from other "prompters" or just copy paste "prompts" made by... AI!
Try to convice me the content these "prompters" are generating has any artistic or creative value!
- It’s inevitable. The question is, what happens to creativity going forward when ai has consumed and used all human creation from the past 3000 years_niko
- And multiplied it with Ai creations a million fold in a matter of months?_niko
- I used to see beautiful hand drawn charcoal portraits on Pinterest, hundreds of them, but it was the same ones over and over again._niko
- Now every day I see hundreds of new ai ones, out of the tens of thousands being created and they all are on a level not possible with a human hand._niko
- So ai will most likely train on those and get even better. Same with literature and music. Human models will be a drop of water in an ocean of ai content_niko
- Real artists will gain value out of all thisHAL9001
- I agree, a human artist will make way more than his ai counterpart just like the master Japanese knife maker makes way more than the mass produced Chinese shit_niko
- The examples are pretty damning
https://storage.cour…yuekit - It's literally just regurgitating identical content from NYT articles when prompted with part of the text.yuekit
- Same as the Midjourney example I posted above. I wonder how people who think AIs are intelligent interpret what's happening here.yuekit
- yuekit1
What do you say to commercial artists concerned this will destroy their livelihood? At a certain point, why would an art director hire an illustrator to produce work like concept art, production design, backgrounds – those sorts of things – when they can just enter prompts and get useful output much more quickly and at much lower cost?
It's a lot of work still. It’s not just like “make me a background.” It might be ten times less work, but it is way more work than than a manager is going to do.
I think there's kind of two ways this could go. One way is to try to provide the same level of content that people consume at a lower price, right? And the other way to go about it is to build wildly better content at the prices that we're already willing to spend. I find that most people, if they’re already spending money, and you have the choice between wildly better content or cheaper content, actually choose wildly better content. The market has already established a price that people are willing to pay.
I think that some people will try to cut artists out. They will try to make something similar at a lower cost, and I think they will fail in the market. I think the market will go towards higher quality, more creativity, and vastly more sophisticated, diverse and deep content. And the people who actually are able to use like the artists and use the tools to do that are the ones who are going to win.
These technologies actually create a much deeper appreciation and literacy in the visual medium. You might actually have the demand, outstrip the ability to produce at that level, and then maybe you'll actually be raising the salaries of artists. It could be weird, but that's what's going to happen. The pace of that demand increase for both quality and diversity will lead to some wonderful and unexpected projects getting made.
- yuekit1
The founder of Midjourney gave his views on all this in an interview last year...
- utopian2
Again, for those triggered by Generative AI art....please take note.
- HAL900124
Fuck anything presented as Art made by AI. For me it's like a game where the goal is to generate nice images, nothing more.
These images are enjoyable, yes, but I give 0 creative or artistic credits to its creators, the machine did the work. Mastering the 'prompt' is like learning a program or coding, nothing more.
- sure, okay.utopian
- Convince me otherwise if you dont agreeHAL9001
- It's true because mainstream A.I. sites/ tools don't allow even the slightest offensive/ provocative thing. And art should be provocative.NBQ00
- a bit too reductionist maybe? "Mastering the 'prompt' is like learning a program or coding, nothing more."imbecile
- learning a program / code is so subjective, which is where we see the talent emerge. therefore... logically... never mind, you don't get itimbecile
- talent of prompting? Yeah sure, but the result can't be seen as creative Art, no artist actually painted or drew or photographed anythingHAL9001
- Its generated Art by computers. The 'creator' just entered keywords.HAL9001
- Well I’m composing 4 minute songs that sound better than anything on the radio, ai writes the lyrics, composes the music and sings it in any style I choose_niko
- By the visual properties of it It’s interesting how quickly the basic AI generated aesthetic has become datedneverscared
- I barely do anything other than feed in shitty prompts. Am I a recording artist now?_niko
- Live by novelty die by novelty ...neverscared
- I suppose I’m not doing anything more or different than any producers done ever except I work with ai and not humans._niko
- I can even create ai generated holographic performers or an avatar to go on tour, the only thing is that groupies will be disappointed backstage or on the bus_niko
- "I'm composing"...but—are you? You're dropping some text in a prompt, clicking 'generate', sipping coffee and waiting.
composing=creating
prompting≠creatingPonyBoy - Let's look at it differently. You're 'ordering' something from an AI app - just like you'd order a coffee from Tim Hortons. You tell (prompt) the...PonyBoy
- Yeah “composing” is what I meant. I don’t know a b flat from a b real but I’m able to now be a world renown (TikTok) “recording artist”_niko
- ...little shit behind the counter that you want decaf with no cream... "I SAID NO CREAM YOU LITTLE FUCKER" (repeating yourself while prompting not necessary)...PonyBoy
- ... the point being you're telling the kid what to get you - you are 'prompting' him / her / it /that (if you will). You're not making the coffee yourself.PonyBoy
- The same goes with AI. You're 'asking' for something... or 'ordering' it and hoping it doesn't put cream in your coffee as 'prompted'.PonyBoy
- Sadly I don’t think listeners or fans care, we didnt care in the early 80s when hip hop djs were sampling old funk and disco songs, or when edm was made by cpus_niko
- Sampling is a creative 'cut and paste' that creates something new... but it's you sequencing it, adjusting it—getting it just right. AI just does it for you.PonyBoy
- Or when all the modern fabricated shit came out, someone else writes, produces, composes, plays instruments, the artist just has to dance around like an
Idiot_niko - So yeah it’s not art and it’s not music and it’s not creative... but will the masses care?_niko
- yeaaah... I hear you on the 'idiot dancing around' shit but you also described people in the background that still 'create' (compose etc).PonyBoy
- "... but will the masses care?"
Not sure... let me prompt AI for the answer. :)PonyBoy - Adapt, evolve or go extinct.utopian
- Masses will probably pay lots of $ for Ai generated art and AI art will probably take all the stage very soon, sadly.HAL9001
- But I also think real art will probably gain more value, because its real.HAL9001
- At the same time, anything 'Art' has always been subject to debate, rightHAL9001
- Yeah Remember when Warhol caught flack for not actually producing the work himself? Didn’t really hurt him or his legacy. This could be like that but to the nth_niko
- I try to convince my kids that the Beatles were great because they were singer songwriters, did everything themselves and were brilliant. You think they give a_niko
- ...shit? Give them drake any day. Fml.
We need things faster and in more abundance, to time for craft or to hone our skills. The ends justify the means._niko - As artists we all appreciate and respect hard work and suffering for a craft. But how many of us can afford that hand- made Japanese chef knife_niko
- Painstakingly created by an old master when that Chinese piece of shit knock off is 1/4 as good at 1/20 price?_niko
- not all prompts are created equal. move this to "signs your getting old"imbecile
- Of course learn it... use it... it's an amazing tool. The point is though that you're not 'creating' - you're 'prompting' and let something create for you.PonyBoy
- Learning to write effective prompts is a cakewalk that can be understood in mere minutes. <3 It's not even comparable to 'creating'...PonyBoy
- Creating = doing the work
Prompting = placing an orderPonyBoy - Agree. But also creating = underpaid and under appreciated designer
Prompting = overpaid and talentless boss_niko - So I guess why not become both now that it’s possible?_niko
- Yeah... learn and use the -tools-. Just be careful not to have that "I'm a creator" Ralphie Wiggum moment in front of someone who knows better. <3PonyBoy
- Creating = learning, copying, output
Prompting = learning, copying, output
Everything is a Remix
https://www.youtube.…utopian - Art = Remix
Music = Remix
Design = Remix
Cinema = Remixutopian - Why Ego Kills Creativity
https://www.creative…utopian - By using prompts, everyone is teaching AI while slowly making human craft obsolete.instrmntl
- Make me a painting then if its as easy as remixing.HAL9001
- To achieve good looking painting you need years of practice and some creative talent to make something original.HAL9001
- I can make amazing ''art'' with AI this evening. Let me watch a couple Youtube explaining how to write good prompts.HAL9001
- I 100% agree with PonyBoy when he say Creating = doing the work
Prompting = placing an orderHAL9001 - if you think you 'created' something that you typed into a computer prompt then you might want to check your own ego (referring to 'topes article)PonyBoy
- "Creative genius is the art of authentic self-expression. The further you are away from your true self the weaker your creativity becomes."PonyBoy
- ^That's from that same article...
Happy 'authentic' prompting, everyone!!PonyBoy - AI art has little more, if any, value over Kmart or IKEA art posters.ephix
- media design is become more worthless and it will get even more about power structures than ever before.... that why most designer will wind up in healthcareneverscared
- jobs or similar jobs...neverscared
- How much difference in effort is there between prompting an image and taking a photograph?yuekit
- I’m seeing it more and more in the wild. Mostly replacing stock images and illustrations in ads and on sites_niko
- @yuekit, to take a photograph with the quality of lighting and composition AI is generating, you need years of practice and dedicationHAL9001
- Depends on the shoot, yuekit. Products need a studio, people need proper lighting / gear. Nature or architectural shots are each unique to themselves...PonyBoy
- ...each shoot needing the appropriate lense too. You can spend a full day setting up just to get a few shots. The 'difference in effort' can be extensive.PonyBoy
- and you need experience and practiceHAL9001
- But AI also potentially requires a lot of research and experimentation to actually get the results you want.yuekit
- And you could be training your own AI model or using AI as part of a larger creative process like PhanLo has demonstrated here.yuekit
- Versus some idiot who just shows up with their iPhone and snaps a picture "I'm a photographer" :)yuekit
- Anyway I do get the point you guys are making but I think it's ultimately about how unique and artistic the end result is, not the tool itself.yuekit
- Even after the 'research and experimentation' you're still just 'placing an order'. You're not physically implementing/ creating—you're merely typing keywords.PonyBoy
- A 'unique and artistic' result is presented to you... it is not created by you. Again, it's like ordering a cup of coffee...PonyBoy
- You know what coffee you want, how you want it made, what size, what you want in it etc... but you don't make it—You have nothing to do w/the 'creation' of it.PonyBoy
- "talent of prompting?" yes, writing is a talent that humans have. not all skinemax porn is created equalimbecile
- If we're talking about just rendering a stock Midjourney image then I agree it's difficult to call that your own artwork. But I think there's a spectrumyuekit
- where depending on the scope of the project and how much effort and individuality you put into the work, it can be considered art.yuekit
- Because art is not only about implementation, it's also about the vision and ideas behind it.yuekit
- I understand the point you're making, yk... like a CD placing an order w/their AD / designers—they have their vision while others execute (andy warhol style)...PonyBoy
- ... but usually said CD (or Warhol) could execute their vision w/out help.
I admit I've met some 'visionary' CD's that couldn't execute for shit tho. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯PonyBoy - I was envisioning some version where you didn't just prompt an image but were involved to a greater degree. For instance I noticed some of the images onyuekit
- YouWorkForThem now say "created with AI" but it's still the same style you'd expect from the people behind the site. I'm assuming they're not just crankingyuekit
- these out using a tool like Midjourney but may have trained a model on their own work.yuekit
- Have none of you naysayers noticed what PhanLo's been up to, using his own designs and images as inputs to 'prompt' content that's more his own?Nairn
- “using his own designs and images”
<3PonyBoy - Yes "whatabout PhanLo"...that's what I was saying too.yuekit
- Ah, qbners, being deliberately obtuse to scratch out the belief they're somehow making a point since 2001.Nairn
- Who's 'naysaying'? All I've pointed out is that AI is a tool. If you're just feeding text to a prompt you are not 'creating' - you are 'ordering'.PonyBoy
- I admit I'm openly SHITTING on people calling themselves 'creators' who type shit into a prompt. Phanlo is using his own art - Ai is a 'tool' to him.PonyBoy
- yuekit1
This seems...not good given all the copyright issues they are facing. Apparently if you prompt certain things in Midjourney it spits out images that are virtually identical to the training data.
- *In Midjourney V6 specificallyyuekit
- to be fair, there's no reason for the AI to dedicate too much effort to that promptspl33nidoru
- sted5
- neverscared3
Midjourney's ToS are a joke. "We purposely trained on copyrighted movies, art, likenesses and logos to make our model more appealing and to get you to pay, but it's your fault if you choose to use the AI for the things it's clearly designed for."
- microkorg1
holy v6 batman!
- sted6
- DamnYakuZoku
- yeah, but those eyes are still not human :)sted
- Yeah, but how can this be used outside of an NFT? The low resolution digital concept art, I mean.toemaas
- @toemass you can upscale it to print qualityskinny_puppy
- done by an 10 year old ?.neverscared
- You can upscale and improve it using Magnific. And upscale to billboard sizes using Gigapixel.microkorg
- billboards generally aren't very large dpi files... just saying. i could bore you to death with the detailsjonny_quest_lives
- but mechs are usually built at 1 inch = 1 foot at between 300-40dpi at most. subway 2 sheets tend to be the highest rez OOH buyjonny_quest_lives
- lot of OOH is digital now so a lot of builds are either 1080x1920 or 1920x1080jonny_quest_lives
- if you stand next to it and it's not a screen it's usually 150-200dpi if it's up high over your head and viewed at a distance it's 30dpi at mostjonny_quest_lives
- i'll go crawl back into my print dungeon now.jonny_quest_lives
- Most of the large-scale print stuff I have done is in 300dpi, My eyes just won't accept anything below 150.sted
- I remember the first time I had to submit materials for scaffold nets, designing at 80 dpi was my worst nightmare.sted
- one of the (several) issues I have with this is that I can only downvote it once.face_melter
- @jonny_quest_lives thanks, super interesting. TIL OOH Out Of Home advertising.skinny_puppy
- ahah i knew you're going to like it :)sted
- yup, by 'billboard' I meant f*ckin' huge resolution. With Magnific and GigaPixel you can keep enlarging with AI doing its best to upscale details.microkorg
- I sent artwork out for a 8ft tall wall with a photo and the print shop said it wasn’t high res. I reminded them no photo that size in high res even exists.monospaced
- wallscapes we usually build 95dpi at final scale if it's a picky client... 75dpi is usually acceptable...jonny_quest_lives
- the problem we run into is a lot of specs are copy pasted incorrectly by sales teams or info deleted so it turns into "we need a 300dpi file"jonny_quest_lives
- versus a 300 dpi file built at 1"=1' scale i.e.- 14'x48' billblboard file supply would be 14 inches x48inches at 300dpi for a linked tiff at 200-300mb'sjonny_quest_lives
- neverscared0
AI companies would be required to disclose copyrighted training data under new bill
The AI Foundation Model Transparency Act aims to make it clear if AI models used copyright data for training.
- time to design an a.i which sniffs out the cases with the highest amout of copyright infringement profit... or just go into quantities of cases...neverscared
- i hope there isn't a line in this bill what would open the gates to copyright AI outputs.sted
- well u cant be a thief all the time...neverscared
