Creationist Lies
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- mrdobolina0
jesus didnt know what 'primordial goo' was.
- pocho0
Well said, Tick.
- TheTick0
"Jesus, tell us about primordial goo.."
"My children, can you produce some?"
"Here my Lord."
"And who said this primordial goo is here?"
"Why the scientists, My Lord."
"Well give to the scientists what is the scientists, but give the lord your Spirit.."
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Well, I bet that's what WOULD be there if primordial goo was in the New Testament...
- discipler0
Tick, you're categorically wrong in your tirades. You rewrite history, I could go on and on about that alone.
There is no agenda. As I've said til I'm blue in the face, the truth is Intelligent Design and Creationism is not about illegitimately imposing the dictates of faith upon science, but about raising rational objections to proposed Darwinian explanations of the biological world.
Furthermore, Christians do the things you suggest they do. But this does not mean we are not to counter what we believe are false ideas about the origin of life, or turn a def ear to the claims of naturalists. The new testament you mention issues a command to earnestly contend for the truth (Jude 3). Darwinian evolution has done more to devalue and denigrate humanity than any other belief in history. The impact is far reaching in today's culture. It has permeated. The problem you have is seeing science and Christianity as mutually exclusive. This is false. Honest object study shows that they support and harmonize with one another.
There's no such thing as "Modern Enlightenment". Only the remnants of naturalistic philosophies that leave the soul bankrupt and do not satisfactorily explain who we are and why we are here.
- Mimio0
I don't there are anything but "creationist" or "ID" speculators. There isn't any real science to it. There's no one anthropologists or archaeologists out there trying to find the Garden of Eden or remains of the Tower of Babel. Or any physicists that think for a second the earth is the first thing to exist in the universe. The overwheming majority of scientists know the bible is purely allegorical, and think nothing more of it.
- JazX0
jesus didnt know what 'primordial goo' was.
mrdobolina
(Jun 13 05, 08:12)Actually, Jesus is an extension of God and the Holy Spirit which makes up the Trinity. You can interpret Genesis any way you want, and I'm not necessarily supporting Creationism, however, the time periods in what God called days could have represented any number of years, even those that included dinoasaurs and such.
BTW, why even bring up a thread called 'Creationist Lies'? Seems kind of juvenile to pick a fight right? I don't remember anyone bringing up a thread called 'Scientific Lies'?
- mrdobolina0
you're not necessarily supporting creationism?
coulda fooled me.
- discipler0
Mimio, you're wrong on every count. Not sure where you're getting your info from. Look above in my post, at the list of Bible believing scientists. And there are Biblical archaeologists researching the specific things you mentioned! In fact, archaeology has it's roots in Scholars pursuing the remnants of Biblical places and things. And those who understand textual criticism understand that writing that is Historical Narritive is not to be interpreted allegorically.
- TheTick0
No, Discipler, YOU are rewriting history. I would love to hear you go on and on about how I am rewriting history. That'd be rich.
I am not catagorically wrong on anything and I don't go on tirades. I have the occasional hissy fit, but I don't have tirades. BTW, never underestimate the power of a hissyfit.
And by saying "God did it..." is not a rational objection to Darwinian explanations or even within the scope of scientific enquiry.
And Darwinim certainly got twisted around by some 19th century thinkers and social theorists, but to deny Christianity's place in the outright killing and prejudices of mankinds history for two thousand years is to rewrite history.
Tha fact that you can honestly say there is no "Modern Enlightenment" is assinine. Last I checked the entire modern world is a creation of Enlightenment thinking. Gee the very computer - and the internet we are having a conversatio on are the result of Enlightenment thinking, as is the ability to discuss openly these ideas in a free market place oof ideas. Enlightenment. Under Christianities reign in the West as a political enitity they burned people for saying things openly. And you want me to go along with not fighting for Christianity to come back and have a political role or an educational one in public schools? Hell no...
You can try to hide the actual agenda behind ID all you want, but I ain't buying it.
Teach ID all you want in Sunday schools, private scools and ome, but keep iot out of my public scools and universities...
Why do I bother...
- JazX0
you're confusing religious views with how some scientists view dates. pure and simple. attacking discipler according to his religious views is one thing, but that's not what this was originally about.
- mrdobolina0
he made it about that, jaz.
- TheTick0
Mimio - god, I hate to say this, but I actually have to agree with Discipler a little bit - there certainly are archeologists out there doing research into Biblical sites and events.
Garden of Eden is most likely in Iraq (you know the country we are currently blowing up piece by piece), Tower of Bable probably refers to the ziggurauts of ancient Babylon, etc....actually alot of good and interesting stuff out there on this.
If it interests you look up the REAl biblical scholars who are doing this work and not the zany Fundies whose main goal is just to find enough evidence to prove that you know the Bible is literal...
- JazX0
fair enough
- Mimio0
So discpler, have they found anything to back up the stories in Genesis, like the Ark, the Garden of Eden, Saddam or Gomorrah, a single stone from the Tower of Babrl? No, because it's pointless investigation, scientists who are concerned with getting results and information don't waste their time with it.
- TheTick0
JazX - if ID ISN'T about religious views please let me know. It'd be news to me...
By the way, if ID does become the standard taught in scools the very next day I am on the picket line ensuring that the creation stories of Hindus, Native Americans, the Chinese and everyother feakin' religion out there is represented in my kid's science class.
I mean can Discipler DISPROVE that we really aren't on a back of a giant turtle somewhere. I mean, someone SAW it right, because someone wrote it down in a book in India. You know, there was witnesses..but is a few millenia go...
Oh, wait - those are just stories of the huge stinking part of mankind that hasn't accepted Jesus as their personal savior and you know, don't really count. Superstitious lot, all of them...
- mrdobolina0
no shit, tick.I mentioned it to discipler once that all other religious views of creation need to be in those books side by side and he disagreed.
- Mimio0
Indiana Jones doesn't represent the vast majority of anthrolopological and archaeological work being done. You both know this. Ask yourself why that is, and you'll get the point I was making.
- TheTick0
Mimio - actually there are some archeological digs that do corresond with those things...not neccessarily in the way the Fundies believe, but they're there...I mean there WAS a flood. It wasn't global - rather regional to the Middle East but it happened...
- Mimio0
Tick, did the biblical account of the flood do anything scientifically by exaggerating the truth of the actual event, or did it do something allegorically for the reader? See my point?
- TheTick0
Well, Mimio I ould say the world was a lot smaller place and the human frame of referance was different. I think the flood story was allegorical, but also "factual" given the context when it was written.
Look the bible was written in an era when magic and miracles were REAL, in the human mind, so to try and place modern counciousness into a older stage of human thinking is dangerous without certain caveats - just like trying to place stone age thinking into a modern context.