Pro-Choice
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- spk0
gramme the hypocrite (like so many of his red-state bretheren):
despite claiming to be pro-life(pro-birth)... you are ok with killing (even though the death penalty recently has killed an innocent man - and narrowly missed killing dozens of others) in contradiction to the 1st commandment.
you are a conservative despite the fact that most conservatives in this country support war and killing - and stated the only liberal you would support is one that supports war.
and you want to apply your laws and views to other womens bodies despite the fact that the bible you claim to adhere to, in your selfmad of of contradictions, is ambiguous about abortion.
and have yet to name a single politician that is an example of a "moral" one... but were quick to say the war-monger Lieberman was the only "Moral Democrat"
how does it feel to live in such a cloud of contradiction...?
- planet010
while we are at it we should probably round up all the poor, homeless, insane, retarded and just kill them.
I mean the world is too crowded anyway right, so it's alright. the end justifies the means, no?
- krez0
enough with the tired rhetoric. that's your opinion. great. good for you. you still don't have the right to choose for me.
monkeyshine
(Jan 23 06, 10:07)---
i don't think the point is to make choices for women. women can make many choices. a fetus can't -- but that's a moot point if you don't consider a fetus (at any stage of development) a human life.
- todelete__20
Let me see if I understand this.
If a woman is raped, she shouldn't abort the fetus because that should be the fate of the rapist. And, the fetus has no choice in the matter and should be allowed to live because it is innocent?
Did I paraphrase that correct?
Because my girlfriend in high school was raped in the parking lot of a Best Buy by two gentleman and became pregnant with one of their childs. Since DNA testing wasn't what it is today there was no way of ever finding the culprit.
She was shunned at school for being pregnant and shunned when she walked into the abortion clinic by the people protesting outside.
No one ever stopped for a moment to think of what SHE was feeling or to think about what SHE was going through. Put yourself in her shoes and think of the horror of some rapists seed growing in you for nine months?
Well no one really did and she hung herself with a bicycle chain before she graduated high school. A fucking bicycle chain in the tree outside of her church.
- mrdobolina0
goddamn.
- chossy0
you americanos sure love to argue :D
*waves
- spk0
wow. that's heavy kOna. i hope she is in a peaceful place now and am sorry you had to experience that.
"The antiabortionist position is weak, riddled with internal contradictions, and dangerously wrong. It is a sketchy argument which does not address key issues. It uses the word 'rights" in a self-contradictory manner which denies the framework from which the concept derives meaning. Although the message is 'there ought to be a law,' antiabortionists refuse to address the question of what this law would entail or how it would be enforced. I believe this refusal serves a purpose. It permits antiabortionists to argue on the side of compassion and children without having to face the truly inhumane and brutal consequences of their theory. Self-ownership begins with your skin. If you cannot clearly state, "Everything beneath the skin is me; this is the line past which no one has the right to cross without permission," then there is no foundation for individual rights or for libertarianism."
- planet010
that's terrible kona
i think you are paraphrasing correctly. i guess if you see it as taking a life, no matter what, it is still taking a life.
it's also easy to understand why so many could be pro-life with the exception of rape and incest.
i would also note, that abortion, homosexuality, (other various sins) can become the pet issues of Christians. To be so vehement on an issue allows one to ignore other pressing issues (the actual people behind the issues, poverty, hunger, aids, etc.) The church doesn't always have a deal with these issues in the best ways.
- mrdobolina0
Homosexuality is a sin?
You people are broken.
- gramme0
gramme the hypocrite (like so many of his red-state bretheren):
despite claiming to be pro-life(pro-birth). .. you are ok with killing (even though the death penalty recently has killed an innocent man - and narrowly missed killing dozens of others) in contradiction to the 1st commandment.
you are a conservative despite the fact that most conservatives in this country support war and killing - and stated the only liberal you would support is one that supports war.
and you want to apply your laws and views to other womens bodies despite the fact that the bible you claim to adhere to, in your selfmad of of contradictions, is ambiguous about abortion.
and have yet to name a single politician that is an example of a "moral" one... but were quick to say the war-monger Lieberman was the only "Moral Democrat"
how does it feel to live in such a cloud of contradiction...?
spk
(Jan 23 06, 10:51)Spk.
If you are going to attempt to dismantly my faith and my character, you should educate yourself first. Point by point and as simple as I can make it for you:
The Bible is actually very clear about abortion:
"They shed innocent blood, the blood of their sons and their daughters...and the land was polluted with blood..." (Psalms 106:38)
Life is sacred, and it begins at conception. Some verses that back up this notion:
-Genesis 2:7
-Deuteronomy 30:20
-Job 12:10
-Psalms 66:9
-Isaiah 42:5
-Ezekiel 37:10
-Daniel 5:23
-Zechariah 12:1
-Acts 17:25, 28
-Hebrews 12:9About the death penalty: because we live in a corrupt world where people will kill eachother whether we like it or not, I believe that capital punishment is a necessary evil in order to help preserve the sanctity of life. It is very sad and unfortunate that on occasion innocent people die; however, I believe that the vast majority of those condemned to death by our court system deserve their punishment in light of the live(s) they have taken.
The Bible’s argument for capital punishment is based on the exact same premise as its argument against abortion, namely that life is sacred because it is created “in the image of God”. Genesis 9:6 says, “Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made man.”
In other words, murder is so heinous a crime that God says in effect, “the most precious of rights, the right to life, is forfeited by the one who dares to wrest this right from anyone.” But, the execution of this punishment is not granted to the individual, but to civil government as is reinforce by the New Testament teaching about the “power of the sword” being given to the state and not the individual (Romans 13).In case you couldn't tell in my original post last night about Lieberman, I was being rather facetious, especially about how I'd only vote for him if he gained some muscle...you took me way too seriously there buddy.
I have already answered your question about moral, upstanding politicans. I don't know of any whom I would trust fully. I can't think of a single good man in politics who I would hold up as a solid example of good character and morals. I think the world of politics is full of corruption and I think that many of the people running our country today are doing a horrible job of it, Democrats and Republicans alike.
I don't presume to tell women what to do with their bodies. It has been scientifically proven that a fetus, an unborn child, whatever you call it, is actually a separate entity with a life of it's own. The fact that it physically depends on it's mother for sustenance does not negate its separate-ness, in fact it means that the mother is all the more accountable for nurturing and taking care of her child. And if not her, then someone willing to adopt.
Cloud of contradictions? I think you are the one living in contradiction and confusion, my friend. It's a very bad idea to misquote the Bible in my presence, and to lump me in with Jerry Falwell and his ilk. It reveals your bitterness and bigotry more than anything else.
- flagellum0
kOna, that is a tragic situation. I agree with what planet said.
Some facts:
http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/
- mrdobolina0
Homosexuality is a sin and then you people talk about people being tolerant. stfu
- flagellum0
mrdobs, the Bible teaches that any form of sexual activity outside of the marriage covenant, is sin. Hetero or homo.
But that's a seperate discussion, isn't it.
- gramme0
k0na,
yes, you paraphrased me correctly.
I feel horrible for your high school girlfriend's fate. It seems many people failed her. I HATE it when people claiming to be Christian and pro-life act out violently or treat women who abort their babies as trash. That is unacceptable.
While I disagree with abortion in all instances except when the mother is bleeding to death on the birthing table and it's gonna be her or the baby, I do feel awful for the women who experience such trauma and heartache. I will never comprehend that. All I hope is that I have opportunities to reach out in kindness to women who have suffered so.
- planet010
gluttony, lying, adultery, lust, etc.
all sins. none worse than another. no one should stand on a moral highground looking down at another.
we are all broken sinners, just forgiven.
>Homosexuality is a sin and then you people talk about people being tolerant. stfu
- mrdobolina0
Discipler, what if I dont believe in the bible? It isnt mandated by the government to believe in it, is it?
- gramme0
Discipler, what if I dont believe in the bible? It isnt mandated by the government to believe in it, is it?
mrdobolina
(Jan 23 06, 11:52)That's fine if you don't believe in it. Most of the people I know are not Christians, yet I work and interact with them, and we respect eachother.
- gramme0
One of my best friends is selectively pro-choice and is agnostic. We have a great time together, drinking beers, talking design, whatever.
- mrdobolina0
That is great, Gramme. I know and am friends with many religious people too.
But should laws be changed related to a certain segment of the populations' religious faith?
Many of the reasons you give for being against abortion are related to your religious faith. You said it yourself.
Now I can see why you PERSONALLY would have nothing to do with abortion. I agree with that, but what gives anyone the right to let their religious philosophy dictate public policy?
That is the point here. Sometimes people just need to take care of them and theirs and leave other folks alone.
