Politics
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- robotron3k1
- one can only hope. if sanders doesn't get the nom i legit hope it splits the democratic partycolin_s
- Also Joe Rogan
https://www.youtube.…yuekit - Rogan is a poor man's Marc Marontank02
- i´d sign that @tank02neverscared
- Honestly tank, touch a compliment for Rogan, he's such a kiss ass...robotron3k
- CygnusZero45
Trump was barely even able to beat hillary in 2016. He won those 3 swing states by a whopping grand total of 70k votes. That was the entire election right there. That was at the very height of his popularity, after hillary was sabotaged by comey, and trump still damn near lost.
Republicans got slaughtered in the midterms after this disaster failed embarrassment of a presidency. He hasnt even sniffed 50% approval in 2 years. If someone this wildly unpopular who basically has done nothing as president but tweet and golf and manages to get re-elected, I do think its time to re-evaluate how our elections work in this country.
- trump is gonna become the ultimate loser probably even before the next elections..neverscared
- one could argue that it says more about the alternative to trump.Gnash
- Never underestimate how people will back a super shagger over some pussyhole libtard hippy warmonger devilworshipping sellout communist millionaire.PhanLo
- It does say a lot about the election process, but also what a sad state Murika is in if there are enough to vote him back in.formed
- You're saying Trump doesn't have a chance against the B team???robotron3k
- The power of incumbency is strong, but if republicans think they've got the election in the bag, then they're just as silly as Hillary supporters in 2016.T-Dawg
- "Buttigieg is Hillary in Dockers"robotron3k
- Ask any racer, any real racer. It doesn't matter if you win by an inch or a mile, winning's winning********
- and you stop there? lets hear how you re-evaluate it and reasons for it. or are u just being emotional?********
- robotron3k0
Oh yeah! The Trump fighting B-Team will have a brand new member soon... Booker, Biden, Buttigieg, Bernie, Beto and now de Blasio!
- grasping at straws here, loser.tank02
- Tank did you stop taking your Trump Derangement Syndrome medication??robotron3k
- No idea, but you have clearly been of your meds for years. Please take them.tank02
- Too late for that. Dude posted a fake girlfriend years ago.. gone, gone, gone.mathinc
- whatthefunk3
- What was really awesome is his proposed 3-way deal with China and Russia for more nuclear disarmaments. He's a massive Leftists about war if you didn't notice.robotron3k
- robo, I wonder who started the arm race again https://www.vox.com/…zaq
- The magic 8-ball says no, "The problem is that Russia has clearly violated that agreement in recent years" Boom! there it is.robotron3k
- a proposed deal for disarmament. like the trade deal with china or the deal with north korea. all these deals. #winningdorf
- ********0
the things that scare me the most is the government policies that give incentives for passive investment. Wether through pension mutual, 401k etc... Lets see we have about 246 companies hoping to IPO this year with 84% never making a profit and the top ones being about -54 billion in profit. These companies hope to blitzscale in order to upsurp the traditional capitalism functions. If they do succeed at the subsidized prices they will eventually need to balance and likely higher than the competition. Another very thing in all this is that 84 percent of these 246 business have never made a profit and more than likely won't. I have yet to see numbers on overall jobs of these companies and any rough numbers on percentage of people employed nor have i heard much about unemployment reserves considering they ran out and needed federal funds last time. really starting to feel like reason has left the party and we are in similar time of toss the witch in the river and if she floats shes a witch if she drown shes one of us. reason has pretty much left the building. Our domestic monetary policy and the much bigger world scale and play is what i think should scare people more than the melodrama of the lefts take on a birther movement. On a positive note i never could figure why chewy was cheaper sending a 65lb bag of food to my door than the store, but todays filings make me get it and question wether i pay more for traditional store service adn carry to my door or pay less and fall for the positive incentive which should not be possible in traditional capitalism systems..... its tough decision
- Deathboy meet the return key********
- I'm just stoked his take is not 50 notes. Well done!BonSeff
- So you’re pro corporate trade regulations. Vote democrat if you want to see this addressed, obviously.monospaced
- well terribly written while watching netflix's. see double addressed points...********
- lack of concern about such things really bothers me. does the whole idea not bother anyone else? rationally looking at it and its scale and size makes housing********
- bust small in comparison. and no im a hands off trade regulation person. its regulations that have created this mess.********
- again gov incentives that promote passive investment lobbied and sold by the big banks that gain power and control through it********
- lets say uber privately funded by google vc, softbank and others drums up a ridic price to sell to stupid public. Mostly pensions fund and mutual fund controll********
- ers. passive money always incoming. but they cash out on the hype the few and there roll is over. there con was to get it to IPO and sell. knowing fomo of stupi********
- d fuck asset managers also chasing highs. the system is broke when people give these idiots money every month with no idea what they do.********
- and the monetary system and policy is screwed in trying to devalue currency 2% per year to stoke investment vs savings. all the while saying savings is a politi********
- cal travesty for retirement and they can fix it, ignoring there hand in discouraging savings. Its a huge fuckin joke********
- be great if gov actually ever rewarded savers and people who planned for the future in responsible manner********
- What was that about 50 notes lol********
- we are just human punctuation marks in deathboy's on-going monologue. word-meat.Fax_Benson
- It’s the lack or regulations that fuel this. Where you got the idea that regulations cause this kind of wild freedom of eco anarchy I’ll never know.monospaced
- You quite literally outlined a reason for regulations and listed specific ones you’d see in place. Pretty contradictory.monospaced
- what? no gov incentives/rules encourage passive and mal investment from the little people all the while discouraging savings with 2% inflation.********
- all im asking for is removal of any gov incentive/rule that encourages mal investment. make it all after tax dollars. no rules or breaks for companies that********
- offer such retirement perks, the rolling back and disintegration of pension systems (that are hardly funded) and less fucking with targeted inflation********
- These rules are in place specifically to benefit politicians and bankers. Politicians do not want savers, and banks want your money.********
- so i'm not asking for any regulations or rules. just removal of them... or is this the problem. people think the only way to fix bad gov, is to add more rules********
- you see my complaints as problems that can be fixed with more rules? I mean it's a terrible way of thinking but is that what you are thinking?********
- and fax. You hit the nail on the head. but still necessary to challenge one's ideas. cant grow in a vacuum. and notes allows me to work out thoughts open to********
- public without being too much of a over bearing nuisance. keep it on the side. medium helps keep it short. not always the best for topics. but the alternative********
- is take more time and do longer posts that probably no one would read, so not much feedback, and might seem overbearing... would you read pages worth of a post?********
- Deathboy meet the return key
- whatthefunk2
- so damn funnyRamanisky2
- Lol Trump will never be allowed to leave office, people have built their careers around him... Way too much cash changing hands.robotron3k
- Yeah, Bill started in 2016, when Trump became president. You moron.tank02
- He was a total failure, made no money, until Trump came along.mathinc
- ********0
as far as the bernie bros goes this is interesting
https://www.marketwatch.com/stor…
he blasts the companies that help fund his nordic socialist utopia... smart of them to hedge oil into stocks but a limited play...
- Isn't that just a wealth fund for the future? It's not how Norway pays for any of their social spending programs as far as I can tell.yuekit
- not sure how it's all spent. probably pension system? more along the lines of needing private markets and corporations large profits, buybacks.********
- or maybe bernie would not support such a thing and dilute the fund in a couple years on free shit.********
- Sovereign wealth funds are very common. The rules around what they are spent on and how they invest differs from country to countrylowimpakt
- @death I'm sorry, I thought of this when I read the post https://thenib.com/m…. Your premise is unclear and repubs blast the same companiesT-Dawg
- I think I understand what you're trying to say but there are a lot of fill-in-the-blanks.T-Dawg
- And it's part of this lack of clarity that I find leads to bad political discussion, rather than productive discussion.T-Dawg
- lol tdawg yea it is like that.there is a lot of fill in the blanks and larger picture stuff. but at the same time those things dont get attention on the********
- campaign trail by the hucksters. more of slam to free "this" slogans based on irrational comparisons********
- but i do have some obama style hope that such facts might help people question or challenge fed narratives********
- productive discussion towards nordic areas should be more poignant on where wealth is derived, numbers and culture.********
- sustainability, economies local and globally, with exports/imports and real costs. and not just saying because someone has a big wheel i should have one too.********
- if we want to talk about bernies policy we can simply talk numbers and see it as completely unsustainable and basically immoral if you believe in property right********
- but no one wants the hard fact numbers********
- Norwegian Oil Fund info https://www.nbim.no/…inv
- https://www.nbim.no/…inv
- Thanks for elaborating deathb. I agree that big picture issues are usually lost in our quick-to-digest news absorption.T-Dawg
- I also think the 'give stuff away for free' headlines are actually a narrative coming from the right, which is an idea much a much easier to smear.T-Dawg
- We should be looking at the numbers, and the larger picture like you mentioned. No one on the left (that I've heard) actually thinks this stuff is free.T-Dawg
- On the side, that norwegian oil fund website is awesomely built, so easy to use and packed with info.T-Dawg
- I'd expect the right to smear the free stuff policies. They are pitched as free stuff to voters. My experience is ppl on the left/right seem to stop caring abou********
- t details or costs after deciding it's something they would like. Neither party believes something to be "free" but selectively decides to not look further.********
- have their cake and eat it too pretty much. And it bugs me all the while talking of greed these same people are oblivious or stubborn to admit their own greed.********
- specially love the ones who try to hide greed behind ideas of a "right"********
- whatthefunk7
- i remember the rural scotland people i encountered supported trump. mostly due to immigration rules. rural scots hated eastern block eating their business********
- edinburgh different than the isles. but i get they are looking out for their self interests********
- It's fairly mixed in regard to Trumpy up here. His golf course in Aberdeen destroyed a lot of the sand dunes and he tried to bully people off their land...PhanLo
- ... so some people think he's a prick. Some folk are fine with that level of cuntery though. I've spoke to fishermen that didn't like the EU fishing laws...PhanLo
- ... that allowed Euro boats paid by Russia to overfish the waters around Scotland while local fishermen couldn't catch as many fish. Not sure Trump could do...PhanLo
- ...anything to fix that though.PhanLo
- i remember the rural scotland people i encountered supported trump. mostly due to immigration rules. rural scots hated eastern block eating their business
- ********-1
On my disgust of the recent implosion of of debt driven IPOs and the passive mal investments. And how gov incentives intended to help the people are a sham that only contribute to larger wealth inequality. And to Fax point about human punctuation. Maybe not the right tact... Set is always a cunt though.And I am a terrible writer in broad aspects because Im not sure the best method to convey ideas in a linear fashion.
To start I think we have to look at the intention and under"lying" justification for every rule and law involving investments and retirement ideas and myths. From social security to 401k and such. All have throughout history have been methods of control and power grabs by political leaders. Wether through the church methods of salvation with current sacrifice for gains or even roman promised pensions to prevent uprisings of failed states. The con is not new and usually never ends with what was promised. Just a con and a sell for political figures. Never has it been about the people it has been meant to benefit.
If we look at the US before FDR and we were to question people about an idea of retirement they might not have one. Why would anyone think of such a thing. Be promised security in age and live life free of all natural contraints involved in life. It has and always will be an idea that I think appeals to people with limited vision, or short sightedness. Cant do anything about that, except better edcuation to stay away from snake oil sellsmen. But Social security was a great sell for FDR offering a product that diversified him from competition and offered a great ponzi scheme false promise he'd never need to be alive for in the long term. He was a tool but he wasn't an idiot. And with all the wartime income freezes and capital controls i think it unintendedly helped promote his causes and history and us pride school books help shape a false narrative of his policies. Giving up near 12.4% (or about 15.3 if you count medicare) is an amoutn to let us live freely and happily after 65 (age has changed so much im not really sure without looking it up). But that was the promise. And that promise has been seen as false and most of the funds have been spent or borrowed agaisnt and current payroll goes to pay the interest on the borrowed funds devaluing the whole scheme. I think historically it would be hard to find anyone to defend the "success" of this program. It's huge failure with liabilities that will never be paid. However social security has little to do with the passive investment Im talking about but sets up the accepted culture of an omnipotent thing that says if you give me money i will always grow your funds and retirement is possible.
The passive investment that bugs me the most is the 401k that was started as a legal tax accident from the 1978 revenue act. Im sure there is also more rules but this is a big one. The accident created a product that neither big banks or gov wanted to correct. It was never the intentions but when discovered it was promoted and pushed. It took a little bit to catch on and sell but when it did it took off. https://www.rstreet.org/2017/01/…
Probably a lot of small rules as well but what bank wouldn't like a popular culture promoting and gov subsidizing giving secured money to a limited and small amount of investment areas. If you were a company who profited what would you do? Best to sell the idea to blindly invest becuase stocks will always go up. Which does have some truth if a FED shoots for 2% inflation per year, but early on value mattered and metrics were more rational. And early on you could expect gains becuase it wasnt all fake and hadnt been geared or weaponzied for profit as algos and curretn metrics account for. Which is not value because pasive investment and the myth of retirement has pumped so much money into the systems and companies that real value doesnt even equate. Now a big driver of this blind investment is driven by political and gov controls that give incentives for such behavior. And I should mention the political growth ideals of the idea of retirment are great in knowing that experienced leve workforce and create areas for new incomers... silly but central planners think theyre smart and control that shit.
So this passive investment by people who shrug and say theyre hegdin inflation, or more than likely just doing what theyre told will give them more money as an greedy person would do. Its a huge problem for capitalism and price discovery. Gov subsidizes mal investment. It also devalues savings through inflation and promotes spending at any cost on assets. Not good for the poor or income equality. And the idea of it promising futures while discouraging savings... its so obviously irrational and harmful... people probably forget the fdr gold grab to... Gov does not want us to be self sufficient in saving for retirement. They want us to take the money from under the mattress and spend it. They say as much with interest rates through devaluation. Hard to prove the gov actually encourages any type of savings. And should be common place suspect that they offer savings and investments...
Im not hopeful, but I think people would be best to ignore all tax incetives and save money without investment. But im a rationalist, and no people are less principled than I and will graviate naturally to any condition that benefits them right now. Its the human condition. IEme and my gal had a pizza in restaurant that had massive power failure so cards wouldnt be accepted. they planned to give free pizza. we asked to see the deal and they offered free pizza when we said all we had was card.. but i actually pulled cash that day from a bank visit. i paid the full bill in cash, while others got free meals. I know im not the norm. principles hardly matter to people. In this situation i lose by choosing a principle, but so many passive investors are chasing lost causes out of greed with no principles and they are soon going to be the losers. They dont even have a clue because social conditioning and following herds. He had 401k and that comapny did it to so i did it. It means ill be taken care of (ignoring promises of histortical SS)
Or im completely wrong. Gov will continue to devalue the dollar and inflate assets. No country holding dollars will ever be the wiser and we always control the petro dollar allowing our manipulations and my responsible savings and money in the mattress and refusal of giving my money passivley to companies or a select few individuals to invest in algos ends up in large losses due to inflation and devalueign of the dollar. I can say my dollar lost about half its worth locally regarding real estate in the last year. I thought the QT and pwoell would help adjust asset prices but seems political pressure or large panic liquidity scared him. and now political pushes by trump to lower rates... I have no idea what to do as investment. But if they keep the approach with low interest rates and asset inflation I can only see a populist socialist winning an election and giving me a proportion of the people who grew retirements funds in the previous years. After all equality and if I have none I have the most to gain from a populism socialism system.
And come on. 84% of companies IPOing worth billions that have never made a profit.... It really seems like common sense to me that it's mal investment for the future, not just short end gains. No one is going to win. And the fallout not just from stock price but jobs and lose capital and capital that has been debt monetized is so much worse than the home issue.. it scares me enough i wonder wether I should get gun. I rep peoples rights for guns but i have never wanted one. But I also dont think the US will always be the hero of the world, and i think alot of peace comes from the petro dollar. Historically we wont have it forever and looking at other currency fluctuations from pinnacles can cause quite disruption. China is a very interesting entity. I wont say it couldnt surpass us and take global control.
Really people need to think about what controls them to invest in retirement programs, or pensions. What they plan to achieve. Was it their idea? Personally i want time off in my youth. Are they pawns of the big banks? are they greedily chasing any gains promised? do they realize they are fronting 100 capital have 100% risk and only net something like 30% of gains. do they realize they are stupid pawns?
sigh... we small fries are all so fucked
- My retirement account is healthy and will ensure me and my family will have a good life until the end.monospaced
- Also I’ve profited immensely on these IPOs. Even the ones with companies that don’t profit.monospaced
- How is planning for a good late life retirement in any way "limited vision, or shortsightedness?" It's quite literally the opposite of that.monospaced
- mono i think he's talking about the idea the market has come to the point of asking the public to support companies that have never shown a profitcolin_s
- which in turn benefits the early investors but may bankrupt the rest once they're out from responsibility for keeping the company afloat, screwing over your 401colin_s
- big tech could easily become an accelerated version of the housing crisis in terms of economic falloutcolin_s
- Amazon only recently turned a profit...look at what that investment is paying out.formed
- Not investing is stupid. I don't pay anyone, I manage my own investments. I study and learn.formed
- China will surpass. Quick, too, if Tman continues with his policies.formed
- And like mono, the markets have turned my investments into a nice retirement fund, doubling many, many times over.formed
- @colin, gotcha ... in that case, I fail to see how the government really has anything to do with an individual's choice to back a unicorn IPO ...monospaced
- ... or in the ability for a company to become a unicorn in the first place. The only way to curb this would be a regulation in the free capitalist market.monospaced
- All of which isn't related to my own private 401K, and my planning for retirement and legacy, which like formed, has nothing to do with the government.monospaced
- So I will double down and say that a healthy 401K is the smart move, considering alternatives. This isn't politics.monospaced
- Neither is gambling on a unicorn IPO.monospaced
- ^ That.formed
- If you are talking about changing the rules around IPOs, and you want the government to back those rules, that would be nothing but REGULATIONS.monospaced
- Mono current gov regulation gives incentives to invest in unicorns, passive investment, and even companies to offer plans. Did you know you are forced to********
- sit through employer plans. and all the regulations rules trying to be passed to force mandatory investments.********
- its strange you see no gov involvement here but their fingers are all over the scales. Colin got where I was going.********
- Its just scary that a market is trading securities on companies that never made a profit or companies that price is trading at 40x times actual earnings********
- would this exist if it wasn't for botched 1978 revenue acts, and allowing pre tax dollars to invest? in markets its all about timing.********
- i don't gamble with my money, i could gamble with others... but it all looks good until it doesn't. The 2008 market drop was legit. But gov/fed inflated a even********
- a bigger asset bubble. I wont presume to know when, but it will end badly. And im on the side of cash which is being destroyed, but I just prefer the liquidity********
- Crossing fingers china doesnt try to upsurp the reserve currency this year as there big finale to 70 years of communism. really bothers me deals********
- with saudis for trade and now they will require chinese as mandatory in school teachings as second language.********
- and i love this hubris "My retirement account is healthy and will ensure me and my family will have a good life until the end."********
- and how can that graph on investment and gov policies involved during times not register as gov made bubbles. gamers no about rules to systems********
- an OP gun, everyone goes for. Tax rules and regs have made passive investment OP. Over used and breaking the system. Thought the developer/fed with QT was actua********
- lly going to nerf the system, albeit ppl said it was impossible, and they seemed to be proven correct after dec liquidity fiasco. Now just waiting for reality********
- to check it.as tom robbins said, artifical inflation is still controlled by natures rules, you can only stoke a fire and build it up so big either it goes out********
- control and burns the village down, or you use all fuel and the flames ceases to exist.********
- And perhaps ppl like mono behavior is being manipulated by gov and he has no idea. i might be naive in thinking such things are obvios********
- there is NO government incentive in existence for investing in a unicorn IPO. Whomever told you that is lying, and you're a fucking idiot for believing itmonospaced
- IF there is one, PROVE IT. I'll wait. If you plan to just add another 10 notes without any evidence, don't bother, FFS.monospaced
- I invested in several unicorn IPOs. I GUARAN-FUCKING-TEE I got NO INCENTIVE whatsoever for it. Your turn, you sad sack.monospaced
- after 1978 law companies could offer retirement plans to employees as a perk. however they calculated a portion of allocated salary to retirement********
- why, because they get more tax reductions. Now the employee by law can also invest and get tax perks of being tax free now. These funds mostly all flow to ETFs********
- mutual funds, and investment vehicles that are centralized by a few big companies. These companies algos choose were to put the money. And there is so much mone********
- y and passive funds that every company is over bought. And this passive money has pretty much screwed all invest values and price discovery********
- Now maybe you actually get on scottrade and buy unicorns like bitcoins. But that is not passive investment and individual gambling of that sort is fine********
- but when X amount of money is leaving peoples paycheck each month and going to the casino to be pushed into overbought companies and chasing any trend to get********
- paid is bad. especially considering they cash out quite frequently while most have to wait 30 years. Now you might say the law doesn't force investment. True********
- But the most successful laws are ones that shape behavior. Carbon tax laws to shape use of gas, waste disposal laws to shape how much you toss. In this case********
- this law happen by accident. It wasn't ever even meant for retirement for people. And I believe like many economists, it's bad as we have seen since early 1980********
- How much wealth inequality would you contribute to the masses centralizing money together to pushup these companies in hopes of scraps and low taxes come time********
- to check out.The big winners of the law are politicians, corps, and banks. However when inequality gets high, or a big pop, i also expect gov to seize the fund********
- guys like bernie would love to distribute retirement funds.********
- and another thing on the unicorn IPO. are you investing because you see future value in a company? Or just chasing trends like trading beanie babies while that********
- shit is hot, knowing there is no real inherent value. It won't last and plan to sell before it crashes. Personally I find that as the destructive kind of********
- greed. Chasing real value for personal greed is fine, but shortterm should be frowned upon. But it is what it is.********
- that's what I thought, you can't name a single government incentive for investing in an IPOmonospaced
- what your'e talking about is how retirement funds are now in private equity, and yes, that's scary as fuckmonospaced
- the WHOLE POINT of investing in a unicorn is to gamble ... SOMETIMES it's because you believe it's going to grow, but mostly to win on the hypemonospaced
- the reason tehy're called unicorns is because they're mythical ... billion dollar valuations for no actual value. But still not incentivized or tax deferredmonospaced
- no bailout exists for a company going under, and if someone loses on the market, that's their problem. No gov will get involved.monospaced
- I'm more concerned with gov incentives that promote destructive behavior. The passive investment of people who have been promised compounding returns on tax********
- free money. It should be removed because it sets a system up of gambling on insane hype by a very small few. Responsible investment is no longer existent********
- Like buffet said it is hard to find value right now with everything over bought. Plus I think if people look at "real" savings. Not the balance of a 401K...********
- Because that money doesn't count until you have it out. And if people see the real numbers they might think a little more about inflation. or one can hope..********
- and as far as companies being bailed out. they have been in the past. look at all the auto companies. bear sterns, all the banks with QE. Just depends on********
- the political damage. And I think when this blows you will see another larger wealth grab, which could very well swing politics in a very bad way.********
- ha. i just realized you think i didnt name single gov incentive for investing in an IPO. glossed over it because I couldnt imagine someone not********
- understanding the incentives.. crazy. And not sure what you mean retirement funds are in private equity. What else would they be in treasuries?********
- what do you think the revenue act of 1978 is if not a direct gov incentive? do you have different definition of gov incentive?********
- formed2
Great. First Trumpster declares the Revolutionary Guard Corps, a terrorist group, setting up the stage for an attack w/o Congress's approval. Pompeo and Bolton wants their war and Trump wants to brag and do whatever he can to maintain power (just look at the funding for aircraft carriers over cyber security).
F*cking terrifying. I pray America, or 'Murkia, doesn't let him get away with this.This is insane.
Not to mention, and not surprising, anyone with any experience (or a brain) thinks this is all a stupid: "Top American intelligence and military officials, including Gen. Joseph F. Dunford Jr., the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, opposed Mr. Trump’s action"
- it's been a while, the big boys need another payday.fadein11
- 90% of me thinks this is because Americans are less likely to unseat a sitting president during times of warcolin_s
- not that there has been a time of peace in recent memory... i mean basically since 9/11 it's been war, with the war on drugs before thatcolin_s
- Trump is a crazy, unpredictable, vengeful motherfucker... opposing World leaders need to see him as such.robotron3k
- Makes sense, irrationally threaten an international war and kick the hornet's nest a few times. What could possibly go wrong??formed
- @colin - yup, I remember a colleague saying he voted for Bush for a 2nd term just for that reason. Pathetic.formed
- _niko0
- lol. has this writer been on the internet? trump has completely changed the narrative of what "media" is. no one trust shit anymore.inteliboy
- unless it is Fox. Or run by Murdoch.inteliboy
- I'd have to agree. Obama's vow of transparency was complete bullshit.BonSeff
- Big Bazza was such a good guy tho'. Drank that water in Flint like a boss. Man of the people etc.PhanLo
- The difference in media manipulation between Obama and Trump is one of the most obvious in history.********
- allthethings1
Trump's subpoena obstruction has fractured the Constitution's system of checks and balances
Millions of Americans voted in favor of a stronger check on power by ushering in a new Democratic majority in the House. That mandate is being ignored.
- whatthefunk3
- i am amazed people still believe it works in any other way than this...renderedred
- < This would only be accurate if the wealthy never spent any money.Morning_star
- spending money is not trickle down eithermonospaced
- if the rich were to, say, take their insanely disproportionate wealth and income and use it to significantly increase wages, that would be trickle downmonospaced
- a 0.5% wage increase and a $500 one-time christmas bonus doesn't count either, as those are drops in an ocean in comparison to the tax breaks they getmonospaced
- If the largest corporatons took their billions and billions and used it to lower prices of products, sure. But that isn't happening.monospaced
- That’s not my understanding of the theory. Lower taxes to stimulate investment and spending. That extra spend and investment then trickles down.Morning_star
- No, they buy back their stocks.BonSeff
- I’m sure some businesses or private wealthy dudes will do that. However, most don’t.Morning_star
- oooh kaayBonSeff
- Nice 80s Lenny Henry impression. Bit racist these days though.Morning_star
- I don't know who the fuck lenny henry is. but i do know you assume way to much.BonSeff
- All the tax breaks to business, that "repatriation" crap went to stock buy backs. There is no "trickle down".formed
- https://www.youtube.…********
- FYI I don't think Trickle Down Economics is a plausible solution. It's been tried and failed in may forms. My issue was with Mono's definition and the claim...Morning_star
- ...that ALL businesses and wealthy types bought back stock. Just not true.Morning_star
- Look at my previous post on this thread. See how the tax breaks worked out for the people of Louisiana.PhanLo
- I never said that!monospaced
- M_s - how is an individual going to buy back stock? They simply hoard their wealth and collect returns with capital gains rates. It's been shown over and overformed
- that the wealthiest don't spend more, regardless of tax breaks or the economy - it just doesn't matter as much when you have a ton of money.formed
- https://www.youtube.…
again******** - its sold by politicians only as theory. Some keynes econ theorists might promote it as well but mostly a fiction.********
- republicans sell it and idiots buy itmonospaced
- youre a fool if you only see it party line. shows little grasp of actual policy works. Both parties make regular use of theory to boost economy regularly********
- Look at the parties, the politics and the agendas and say that again. Jesus Christ. Of COURSE it’s a party thing. You’re ignorant of you argue against that. Facmonospaced
- ? you said republicans sell it... that is party specific... I cant help but think you believe it a party line tool. which i just said it isn't.********
- and which I think explains the main reasons. trickle down is fiction, incentive for investment is good, tax effects investment directly with money.********
- democratic "trickle down theory" is different. they think they know how to build the bottom up. instead of freeing up capital in the top end they believe they********
- are smarter than the markets, and know how to choose to spend free capital wether on infrastructure for limited time jobs or welfare and hoping it grows busines********
- which is hubris and the republicans tax breaks have a greater chance of producing better results do to free market principle that give********
- the voice an power to every individual to vote on what works for them vs state small committee base dictating for whatever reason/politics. That gov trickle dow********
- n to build up is a joke. Just read some Hayek and tell me where he errored?********
- And yes I don't believe we have hardly a free market system. tax breaks and rules tied in with so many other regulations are largely built upon politicians********
- creating suffering and hamstringing it for a platform to greedily pursue their own goals. and those types are probably worse than power hungry cops who shoot 10********
- lb dogs in front of the kids. I'd say just fuckin wake up but that shit doesn't work for flat earthers, or any majority throughput history********
- and yes, republicans have been selling "trickle down economics" for decades, and it is a party thingmonospaced
- ONLY republicans... is that an absolute. A party line thing that is a constant like gravity?********
- minus wormholes an larger varying factors, more constant on other i should specify...********
- look, if you want to show me any recent or current democrats who are talking about it, go ahead.monospaced
- and only the sith deal in absolutesmonospaced
- If its all about tax cuts than not many democrats currently because they lost their power. Last one did it was obama.********
- Its a tocqueville thing about politics buying us with our own money. but ill say almost every democrat ( and many reps) are in support of infrastructure project********
- these are another bullshit trickle down system where as giving large grants to corps will push hiring and boost economies********
- easier to just say most instead of names on that one. The big question would be do you think gov projects like that are similar to tax cuts?********
- There are differences but I think the they share the same lie that money flows down. Personally infrastructure is worse than lower taxes********
- because it's too localized and doesn't provide money back to everyone in a equal fashion to decide how to best use money effeciently for them. which is markets********
- BusterBoy0
Question for the Americans here...what happens to people that are sick who have little or no healthcare? I have relatives over there, but they're all pretty well off and have good healthcare...everything they know is anecdotal.
But what if you're in your 30's with no family and a poor paying job...and you get cancer? Or ALS. Or you need a kidney transplant. What actually happens to these people...do they get any form of subsidised healthcare or do they just wither away and die?
- They leach off the government and abuse services they didn't contribute to, according to most selfish conservatives you might come across.mg33
- there is an old movie called john q. check it. any catastrophic without insurance.. mexico or india are your only options.BonSeff
- bankruptcy then death.capn_ron
- Have you seen Breaking Bad?whatthefunk
- Well they most likely will go in via local city services already sick to a point. Like Bellvue in NYC is free clinic, hospital. But costs still incure for meds.robotron3k
- I've heard directly that people who make money also abuse the free medical being offered or coming from other countries, being treated, then returning, etc...robotron3k
- A night at Bellevue is just as expensive as any hospital ffs. Nothing is free. People go into massive debt, or worse, don’t get treatment at all.monospaced
- I kind of have an idea what the answer to my question is. Just astounds me the idea that subsidised state healthcare is "socialism".BusterBoy
- Most Americans have zero clue how a modern, compassionate healthcare system works in most first world countries.BusterBoy
- None are perfect...and the problems are the things that are highlighted my Repubs. But the benefits far outweigh anything present in the US system.BusterBoy
- The GOP has successfully sold selfishness as the end-all. If anyone wants to help other citizens it's 'handouts' and 'lazy folk'.formed
- Now add the fear mongering of "socialism" - look at Venezuela! - and more support for corporate/wealthy control continues, less rights for individuals.formed
- modern compansionate healthcare system.. is this an ad. what is this healthcare you speak of? Since selling cupcakes is different at a roadside diner vs trendy********
- urban locale. lets make a true comparison of the differences and see what works logically and fiscally. Education, to cost control, IP, demographics, populatio********
- culture, funds, all matter. As I have said we could freeze spending at a higher level of GDP than most countries and expand medicare to all. However that would********
- cause extreme rationing. and anyone who's dealt with medicare also can imagine the bureacratic nightmares it would cause********
- which should instantly highlight MAJOR differences that don't come down to just money, and that general comparisons have little credence********
- ^ LOL!!!!!!!!Continuity
- I know, right?monospaced
- American here. Bankruptcy and death is correct, or ER visits and nonpayment, ruined credit rating.allthethings
- I was run over by a car, which uncovered cancer. I had Obamacare, which wasn't cheap, but the bills would have bankrupted me in two weeks.allthethings
- The GOP has not only fear-mongered, they've insisted that things like Medicare and Social Security are "entitlements," even though we pay for both in paychecksallthethings
- Deathboy can fuck right off with the idea that Medicare is bad, or badly run. It's great, and I can't wait to be able to get it so I can retire. It's the onlyallthethings
- thing keeping me working. You can retire with a nest egg, but your nest egg had better be multiple millions so long as healthcare is profit drivenallthethings
- Profit-driven healthcare is fucking nuts. This isn't widgets, it's people's lives. The reason we have govt is to pool resources to help everyoneallthethings
- That's what the army is for, police and fire, farm policies, interstate highways, air traffic...the govt is supposed to be for the common good.allthethings
- That's what Of the People, For the People is supposed to mean. GOP cuntsallthethings
- Insurance = socialism. Everybody pays in a little so that the pooled resources are used when people have catastrophes they have to deal with.allthethings
- By the way, this idea of "keeping your doctor" cracks me up. All my doctors have retired, and I've got new guys half my age. I predict theyallthethings
- will also have retired during my lifetime. My dad was a doctor, started during the era of housecalls. He retired because the new medicine was so fucked up, moreallthethings
- about money and paperwork than treating people. This is the American system.allthethings
- My mate lived in California, was a semi-pro skater, but he moved back to Scotland when his daughter got cancer, he wasn't well off enough to pay for treatmentPhanLo
- where he was. First treatment went well here, but the cancer came back and she died. He definitely be bankrupt if he'd stayed in the US.PhanLo
- I question the cost. I should fuck off. Seems logical. Or emotional and driven by the desire to only see what you want. You didn't even address what you think********
- would happen if you open medicare to all (current 49 million) and froze the percentage of GDP which is higher than most countries. Now those funds need to********
- service over 300 million. What do you think would happen to quality of care... and medicare quality is already shitty. Ask people.********
- AS far as SS, medicare being entitlements they are. The whole idea is based on selling you will get more for your money than you put in. If not why not just********
- save? I think you are looking at all of this with great biased naivety. its not immoral to accept people are unequal and some get shit cards, nor should one********
- feel any guilt. when we see shit stained homeless asking for dollars or pissing on our cars or bringing down property values we go ugh... we here lil susie got********
- cancer and cant afford care. that should never happen and help me feel better to think ill never have to deal with that. Very little difference yet big differ********
- ence in cultural views. reminds me of diogenes -When asked why people give to beggars but not to philosophers, he replied, 'Because they expect they may become********
- lame and blind, but never that they will become philosophers.' I think this natural tendency is to blame for such ignorance********
- also buster look at this https://surgerycente…
centers like this got killed in CA for being anti competitive to state ran control******** - there white papers help explain a lot of costs. ad why an appedectomy might cost from $600-$200K. Have to get to the root causes********
- you're one note short of a dozenmonospaced
- mono you just have small very small view of things.if you only had any experience in our medicare va social system you might change your tone********
- but your world view is so limitedly small and constrained to world beliefs that make you more comfortable.********
- if you could realize or accept it you wouldn't be such the sad demo u fit. how much envy drives you? should you hast tag the envy for social?********
- kirshar120
^ BusterBoy
Most low income people are on Medicaid, at least here in Mississippi. It's a state/federal program that provides health coverage for low income folks.
I do know the hospital here in state where my wife works eats a lot of the cost for treating those with little or no healthcare, thus forcing them to raise their prices on everyone else. Of course, they are the only hospital in state that will accept people with no healthcare, all the others refuse to take them in (ironic, the Baptist and Catholic based hospitals are in that group).
- tksBusterBoy
- Eating cost for emergency room is normal.Why do they accept uninsured outside that though?********
- I know there are plenty of federal dollars in play on losses. did they find a loop hole where they benefit to take on more losses? It can't be at risk of going********
- out of business can it?********
- Must they take the losses in order for capital to compete with the baptist/catholic who refuse. there is a lot more to this********
- bliznutty-1
this really isn't politics but just a rant on how arbitrary the whole f'ing thing is..
you ever notice how whenever a teenager does a crime the DA gets to decide whether or not to try him 'as an adult'..
so which is it? does age make you an adult or the district attorney's arbitrary decision?
- If kids can get tried as adults then cops & public officials should get their sentences escalated as well!whatthefunk
- The adult age should match the age of consent within the region. I'd it's legal to have sex at the age of 15, they are now adults.robotron3k
- plenty of factors are taken into account... it's not some 'arbitrary' decision but it is a difficult decision. Is there supposed to be a 'perfect' process?...PonyBoy
- Prosecutors look at the seriousness of the offense, juvenile record (length of... rehab efforts etc) and the willingness of the juvenile to reform etcPonyBoy
