making beats
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- mg331
I've got some mega-dumb questions for those of you who use Logic Pro. section_014, wouldn't mind chatting with you more about some of the things I've seen you put in other comments here.
My main focus right now is getting my template just right to start finishing and mixing a lot of rough tracks in my project. Started using aux channels more for performance and that's been a huge boost for me.
1. On your master channel, what plugins are you typically using? I'm using things like compression, the Logic Pro EQ, maybe the Waves Omni Channel simply for the EQ and saturation.
Been testing out Soothe 2 and Smooth Operator and they're both pretty cool. They work nicely on the master channel and that's where I started. If you are using either of these plugins, where do you put them ahead of or before other plugins on the master strip?
Not sure which one I prefer, although Smooth Operator feels like the better of the two for what I'm trying to even out. That said...
Would you ever exclusively use Soothe 2 or Smooth Operator on the master channel and no other EQ or compression? Been watching YT videos and trying to make sense of that.
Seems like either of those plugins are really nice on electric guitar, and smooth operator worked great on bass guitar.
2. I use KRK 5's with no sub. Started noticing that when I'll switch to actual desktop speakers with a sub my bass is WAY overblown in my rough tracks, because I'm overcompensating when using the KRK's. Grabbed a reference track to see it's EQ and realized that yeah, I need to bring bass down a lot to even things out.
What's the best approach to using my monitors and achieving the right balance?
a. Add a subwoofer to the mix
b. Mix with good headphones more
c. EQ by eye more and make sure bass frequencies aren't too high / back and forth A/B between recording monitors and other speakers.
d. Let something like Smooth Operator or Soothe 2 do the work to balance things out?3. Mixing to Mastering
This project is something I really want to get right. I assume I'm going to be best off sending tracks off to someone to master (and I've got a few people in mind based on the work they've done on albums I really like, who aren't all that expensive).How many of you are doing all your own mastering in Logic Pro? Are you using plugins like Soothe 2 / Smooth Operator to do so? Are you mastering in the master channel of your project, or are you bouncing to a single audio track and mastering that on it's own?
I've always done the latter, especially with the ability to use reference tracks as EQ models in Logic Pro. Just wondering how some of these plugins impact that process and where they fit best.
Thanks in advance for the responses. Glad to come to you guys and not a bunch of randos on Reddit. I love you all.
- Try some of these free ones https://www.tokyodaw…shapesalad
- on your master bus. Don't over process things thought, eq and compression and limiter are enough.shapesalad
- This isn't supported anymore but I love it, just adds something you can barely notice but 'makes' it sound... good:shapesalad
- https://www.tokyodaw…shapesalad
- autoflavour1
ok mg33, as an Ableton user, I am totally unqualified to answer your post above but I will chime in anyway because internet.
skipping all the logic specific stuff obvs.
master fader plugins.. we teach at uni best to leave the master fader alone UNTIL you have finished your composition and mix down.. putting limiters and compressors on the master prior to that you are just going to be chasing your tail as any adjustments made will then be coloured by the master plugins.. light limiting and glue compression only tho.
monitors. Sub's are only worth it if your room can handle them.. most rooms can't. if you do decide to get a sub, make sure you buy it from somewhere that has a no questions asked returns policy like Thomann or something.
As for best approach, B and C are good options anyway, A/B on as many setups as you can. a good investment is a grotbox speaker like avantone mixcube .. perfect for taming your mix.
Mastering.. and mixing for that matter.. If you are serious about releasing something, get it professionally mastered. the old adage is you are paying a mastering engineer to have NOT heard your songs 1000 times already, so the fresh ears is what is worth all the money.
likewise, if you are serious, get your sessions mixed by someone prior to mastering will bring glory. I used to pretty much only do my own mixing until one mastering session and the mix I had was so different on their monitors I realised my own shortcomings in relation to mixing, but also my gear and the ability to actually properly hear what was happening in my mix.
- mixing to a good reference track is definitely a pro tip tho..autoflavour
- Thanks man! My project is definitely something I'm trying to treat as professionally as I can. It's the first thing I've made on my own sincemg33
- my band days ended in 2009.mg33
- Question RE: mixing. Willing to pay someone for sure. But here's what I'd like to know: what do I give them?mg33
- Do they get a project file with EVERYTHING and hopefully they have the same plugins? Or, do they get WAV bounces of each track?mg33
- Regarding reference tracks, there are definitely a small # of tracks that match what I want to hear in my head, whether full instrumental music or ambient trackmg33
- A couple of my favorite reference tracks:
https://www.youtube.…mg33 - https://www.youtube.…mg33
- generally the mix engineer will tell you what they want. usually stems post mixer, but some engineers will want to start it from scratchautoflavour
- reference tracks are great but you really need to find something that is as close to the track your making. remember the reference is not just structureautoflavour
- but also tone, balance etc..autoflavour
- my advice try and get the mixing as close as you can and maybe find a couple of online mixing engineers.. send 1 song out to a few and see which you like bestautoflavour
- Thanks, most appreciated! I still might pick up Smooth Operator for non-mastered stuff, particularly ambient loops.mg33
- shapesalad2
- Lots of useful + professional mixing tips.shapesalad
- Thank you! Agreed.mg33
- mg331
autoflavor,
Thanks again! Spent some time doing a few things: switching back and forth between my music speakers and recording monitors. Looking at EQ when using the music speakers and dialing back the overblown bass so that part of the EQ isn't going berserk. Then switching back to monitors and noticing how much the bass is lowered and trying to get my brain to think "ok, this is right."
Also dropped a reference track and looked at the EQ on that. Lastly, used Match EQ from that reference track to shape the whole thing and it's much better now.
When I'd used match EQ before, it sounded so vastly different and I get why: I was always overblowing the bass to compensate for the lack of it in the monitors, and listening to the reference track almost always on regular speakers.
Not sure if I want to get a sub or not... in the end I think the headphones / regular speakers method is going to help my use my ear a lot better to dial things in.
- Another thing to consider is what is happening to the bass waves when they leaves your monitors.mort_
- Without careful monitor positioning you could be getting false bass build up or phase cancellation.mort_
- Get the monitors away from corners and walls if you can. Like 3 feet away. Positioning makes a huge difference.mort_
- THIS x100000autoflavour
- just remember that listening to headphones will always give you a skewed perception.. you skull is reverberant and low frequencies are emphasisedautoflavour
- Did not know that about headphones! In fact I added a sub to my setup because I was hearing more lower freqs in my headphones.mort_
- The sub definitely gets right down there but also kind of complicated things. Still tweaking trying to find the right ratio.mort_
- subs are great if the space can handle them.. my studio regardless of how I tried wouldn't. apart from everything shaking and rumbling, it just didn't flowautoflavour
- Ianbolton9
After working on this for way longer than Shape would like anyone to, I'm happy to finally finish a new track. More to follow this year.
https://soundcloud.com/ianpaulbo…- me?shapesalad
- Very nice.shapesalad
- Only mucking around mate. You were on about how anyone pointlessly spends ages on artIanbolton
- Haven't listened yet, but that cover is teh gorjos.Nairn
- prompt?imbecile
- Total prompt! Haha.Ianbolton
- nice.. well mixed and nice composition..autoflavour
- Those lovely subtle mellotron flutesfuturefood
- imbecile0
- dope!futurefood
- just realized that dude has the COTK Model 15, of course he would right???
I have supreme lust for that thing.futurefood
- spl33nidoru2
I'm looking for a standalone groovebox to make low-fi demos on that will later be entirely redone elsewhere, in the genre of Air's Moon Safari. More low-fi jazz than pure electro.
Up to $1k.I need a sampling function and great sounding synths to avoid having to connect more gear to it, also need a song mode.
Don't necessarily need midi out, will not be connecting it to a computer.The key being for it to be intuitive and fun to use.
I've had an MPC One and hated its UI though it's without a doubt one of the best machines out there.
Was considering the MC-707 but no song mode, seemed perfect otherwise.Right now it looks like my sweet spot would be between the Roland MV-1 (despite its tiny screen) and NI Maschine +
I haven't looked too deeply into it yet but the Maschine + button setup and interface might be the most logical to me.Would love some recommendations or opinions on these.
- An iPad + keyboard & knob controllers. Infinite apps/instruments/eff...
Korg Module (for mobile) is astounding and def some good lofi jazz keys!microkorg - There are apps that work like Live/Maschine song/jam modes.microkorg
- iPad
Faderfox EC4 (displays params)
USB Midi Keyboard
--------
WIN! ;)microkorg - Ah.. hadn't considered an ipad at all, and I have a pro haha! I liked the idea of a dedicated machine but I'll check Module and will think about it!spl33nidoru
- Used OP-1 could do all that. Perfect for kicking stems out to be redone elsewhere. Quirky UI thouletterhead
- SP404MK2 is great & tons of fun. Sample synths from the iPad and it becomes an all-in-one grooveboxletterhead
- I had my eyes on the SP404 at some point but got into Koala on ios and realised I didn't want to rely so much on external sources. Good one though!spl33nidoru
- Mate, post the results when you settle on something!
<3 Air. And their ilk.Continuity - Will do!spl33nidoru
- sounds like you are describing and OP-1autoflavour
- ^ I should check its synth engines, always assumed it was sonically closer to a digitakt kind of vibe.spl33nidoru
- hmmmm. digitakt is a sampler so it will play back whatever you load it.. OP-1 doesn't really sound like many other synths in a wayautoflavour
- https://synthstrom.c…sandbag
- Right auto, I meant Digitone.
sandbag, I was checking the Deluge last night, too many good options I don't know how to choose anymore, this will not end well !spl33nidoru - After further research I decided to go with the MV-1 despite its shortcomings. Cheaper all-in-one, great sound engine, so-so sampler but will do the jobspl33nidoru
- And I can use my ipad as ext display to make things easier.
Thanks for your inputs! This guy finished convincing me.
https://youtu.be/SQC…spl33nidoru - ps microkorg and letterhead : Korg Module is def worth integrating through the iPad, and a SP might come in handy later to compensate for MV1' sampling weaknessspl33nidoru
- An iPad + keyboard & knob controllers. Infinite apps/instruments/eff...
- imbecile2
ORIGIN Vintage Plugin (VST, AU) Free Download
https://cymatics.fm/products/ori…
What exactly is Origin?
Origin is a vintage/lofi plugin created to make your samples sound like they’re straight from an old tape machine.The main knob is a resampler/bitcrusher with two special filters to make your samples sound “underwater” (this effect can often be heard in Drake songs)
The other four knobs are Tape Saturation, Noise, Movement, and Chorus. Using these 5 powerful controls you can instantly give your samples a vintage vibe.
*Origin is 64 bit only
- This is cool! It's got the Bibio sound to it that I like so much. https://www.youtube.…mg33
- great stuff. I'll use this for sure. Cheers for the shareIanbolton
- mg331
Any of you familiar with Hainbach and follow that YouTube channel?
It had been a long time but I went down the rabbit hole last night and enjoyed a ton of his videos.
This was really cool.
He's got such a soothing voice. Could listen all day.
- shapesalad1
Pandeiro has to be the coolest drum sound:
- Also it seems a great way to get ripped.shapesalad
- oooooh I know what im sampling next time im in the studioautoflavour
- mg331
Well, it's controller upgrade time. I've had the Nektar LX49 for several years, and wondered why this week the controller mapping wasn't working anymore, and that it wasn't controlling Logic. Maybe I just hadn't used it's controls in a while. Always liked that controller and they're great value for the money. Nektar confirmed they no longer support the LX series on newer Mac OS's and especially the M1 chips.
Sticking with Nektar but upgrading to the Panorama T4. These get great reviews, better keybed than the newer LX49+, and pretty nice to get that LED display in something that's only $249.
- yeah I have a similar issue.. I can't update my OS or laptop until I have enough cash to also replace my interface.. damn legacy hardwareautoflavour
- can't speak to Nektar keyboard tho.. looks fun thoautoflavour
- futurefood4
- for real I never understood the appeal of sitting on the floor to make music. this seemed to be a thing in the 70's.. fucking wankersautoflavour
- imbecile-1
25 free KONTAKT instruments
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- imbecile-1
- section_0144
@mg33's post above (just seeing it now):
1. Master channel: Personally I leave my master channel empty. I've read about people who have success mixing into a light compressor / saturation plugin on the master channel, but I've never actually attempted it.
However, when I get a track to "beta" phase, I'll bounce the whole thing down, and run it through Ozone to bring up the levels for a listen in the car / some other environment than my studio. This is close as I'll get to attempting to master my own tunes. The setting in Ozone is usually a preset (chosen somewhat randomly) where I remove the EQ and use the compressor + maximizer. Ozone is pretty pricey though. The only reason I use it is because it was heavily discounted when I picked it up.
2. Monitoring: I run a 2.1 setup with 5" monitors (Adam T5V) and a 10" sub (KRK). Previous to this, I ran 8" monitors (Samson R8a). The move to a 2.1 setup improved my mixes so much, I wish I would have changed my setup years ago.
Without going too deep about the reasons why this works better, a two driver setup (one tweeter and one woofer) is basically impossible to get an accurate representation of your mix with. At least in regards to an accurate representation of the full frequency spectrum. Especially with monitors that are in the more affordable price range.
If you look at the flagship offerings from Adam, Genelec, Focal, etc., they all have three driver setups. A tweeter, a woofer for mids, and a woofer for lows. Otherwise, they have to design compromises into the speakers as an attempt to cover the entire audio spectrum. In the case of my old 8" monitors, the low/mids were way too prominent. So, I ended up mixing kick drums (and other sounds around that range) too low. Not to mention, anything under 50hz wasn't pronounced enough, so I mixed sub-bass 5-8 db too high! Which is a shit load in that frequency range.
As mentioned, two 5" monitors and a 10" sub improved everything. Dramatically. Now, the 5" woofer acts as a mid-range speaker down to the 80hz crossover (I tested a few settings, and this worked best for my room), and the sub handles everything below that. When frequencies dip past 50hz or so (possibly higher), it's less about generating a tone, and more about moving air. Which is where a dedicated sub really shines. Especially in setups that are lower wattage (ie. not obscenely priced options). As an aside, don't bother with an 8" sub. 10" or higher. Even home theater subs will work. Again, it's about moving air, and 8" aren't going to do the job (I'm paraphrasing based on what I've read).
There are some caveats / considerations when adding a sub. First and foremost is the room. Bass build up has the potential to be massive, and could negate every potential benefit. My sub is 3' from the wall, but it could honestly use another foot or so. My room is approx 12'x16' with loads of furniture and other crap to absorb sound. A hard-as-nails 8'x8' could be a problem.
I don't have any issues from my seating position, but the bass is seriously overpowering in other parts of the room. Especially the back-right corner. But, that's not a big deal for me. The other part to be mindful of is: you'll have to spend some time dialing in the level. There's tools to do this, but I basically just listened to lots of music on it, and made small tweaks as I went.
3. Bonus round: Just some thoughts on how I approach mixes these days: First, my track template isn't too complex. I just have a bunch of channels (multiple drum tracks, outboard synth track(s), 2 channels of modular, guitar, drum bus) of things I regularly use. I suspect this is pretty typical.
In terms of mixing, I mostly "mix as I go". I'll add EQ's, reverbs, etc. where they make sense. I don't add anything arbitrarily. One relatively consistent thing I'll do (especially after adding the sub) is EQ the low end (usually a 12db low-shelf) out of tracks. Even if they don't target that area. Any guitars or anything you record with a mic, especially. There's always some random low end rumbles that sneak in.
While I do add saturation to the drum bus and other channels, I don't try and get that correct (or even add it) while I'm writing / arranging a track. I usually wait until a song is in the aforementioned "beta" phase to do a proper mix session. And, I find it best to let the track sit on the shelf for a while before attempting said mix. Then I'll try and dial in all the levels, EQ, saturation, and any other mix related tracks.
As a final thought, FabFilter Saturn is sooo nice for the sort of gentle saturation that one usually wants on a drum bus; or any other element that needs more body in a mix. I've used a bunch of distortion / saturation plugins over the years. All the Logic stuff (bitcrusher's drive with everything else at full fidelity is actually really good for this), all the Ableton plugins, Izotope Trash 2, SoundToys plugins, and on and on. Saturn is my go-to for that task these days.
