Colorado theater shooting...
- Started
- Last post
- 373 Responses
- ETM0
I have an honest question... what are people actually protecting themselves from with these guns? It's almost always for "protection" (with some sport/hobby exceptions). Do you folks live in high crime areas? Are you unsafe in your homes?
Are you trained like an enforcement official to handle your weapon in a time of stress or crisis? In the almost implausible case that someone broke into your house while you were home, would you have the balls to collect yourself, control the adrenaline rush to get your gun and make the shot?
Why is it those of us in countries that don't have a gun culture not getting robbed and murdered in our homes? Why are we not over run with crime as all our unarmed citizen roam the streets and sleep in their beds without guns in their homes?
Again, I am not being facetious, it just seems like much of the U.S. has such a culture of fear about every day life. I have never had the thought that I need a gun to protect my family. I also know that 99.9/100 times if I get into an altercation with an everyday citizen, that they don't have a gun that they may use if they are not in their right mind.
If any gun owners have a story that led as to why they feel better with a gun in their possession, I would honestly like to learn more and better understand.
- if you live in fear get a pitt bull. who lives in fear buys a revolver. these out of two stencils in my town. 1999 or so********
- if you live in fear get a pitt bull. who lives in fear buys a revolver. these out of two stencils in my town. 1999 or so
- moldero0
^
armed homeowner- im a gun owner, i own many.
im not for gun control but I am for some kind of psychological testing of people who do buy themmoldero - I guess the culture/cycle of violence is just a catch 22.ETM
- Random home invasions / car jackings etc. mostly U.S. products.ETM
- I can't ever recall about hearing of a car jacking here, and home invasions are usually one criminal going into another's for money/drugs etc..ETM
- yeah US is fuckedmoldero
- another's for drugs/cash etc.ETM
- I am not saying we don;t have violent crime, we totally do. But some stuff just seems more in the U.S. culture is all.ETM
- And no, I never said the U.S. is fucked, or better or worse. Just extremely unique in this regard.ETM
- The only thing I have a real opinion on is automatic weapons. No citizen needs that.ETM
- Well these made for happy viewing.detritus
- oh im saying the US is fucked I wasnt being sarcastic or condescending. http://www.qbn.com/t…moldero
- im a gun owner, i own many.
- melq0
The motivating factor isn't "fear" anymore than fear motivates me to wear a seatbelt in a car or a helmet on a motorcycle.
Some people simply prefer to take responsibility for themselves in as many ways as possible, versus having a steadfast dependence upon someone else to take care of everything. These are frequently the same people that handle their own vehicle maintenance; grow/hunt/fish at least some portion of their food; have a collection of tools and know how to put them to use; on and on.
As a husband and father it is my responsibility to at least put myself in the position to have a chance at protecting my family, were a threat to arise.
I don't get into altercations with the general citizenry, so I don't carry the same concerns as you on that point.
I do, however, spend a lot of time shooting with my son (actually, my whole family, but the father/son stuff is the best). It's a terrific way to stay close with a growing boy, while fostering a growing knowledge and respect for firearms and pride in difficult tasks accomplished. If you ever spent some time on a shooting range, you'd know exactly what I'm referring to.
- ++moldero
- No, I get you, and protecting your family. Just cultural differences, where I think to just grab a baseball bat.ETM
- No judgements or 'rights' or 'wrongs'. Just differences in cultures and perceptions. Which I always enjoy discussing.ETM
- I'm too old to go out and regularly practice with a bat. ;)melq
- Maybe in 10 or 20 years I'll change my mind :) But here it'd likely be a rifle or shotgun.ETM
- Wait, wait, I'm Canadian so I should have said grab a hockey stick, not a bat. Shit!ETM
- TheBlueOne0
Gun owners who buy such things for "protection" without putting the time in to train themselves under actual conditions are essentially the same as guys who buy karate black belts from the internet. Sounds good until some bad juju goes down and their monkey brain just short circuits in the normal "oh god this isn't happening/wait this is happening/oh god not me/oh shit i got a gun somewhere/fuck where is it/oh shit i think i'm peeing" cycle
There's a reason the military spends lots of money training soldiers to be psychologically capable of pulling a trigger in a high stress situation. Just buying a gun, a subscription to Guns N' Ammo and camo underpants just doesn't cut it.
- Speaking hypothetically or do most of the gun owners you know never actually fire the things?melq
- Like driving, perhaps gun ownership licences should require at least basic training time?ETM
- yup, and an "are you bat shit crazy" testmoldero
- Honestly it just makes sense. A small measure of control without depriving people of their 'rights'.ETM
- 'zactly!monkeyshine
- CygnusZero40
^ Huh? Most people that buy guns to keep in their homes to protect against home invasions usually learn how to fire them. You dont need to be an expert marksman to be able to fire a gun and some crazy crackhead that breaks in, you just need basic knowledge of how to fire them, which isn't exactly complicated.
- moldero0
I agree, then again most criminals aren't trained either though.
like this guy and his rap video weapons training
heavy military training is for combat against other military forces who are heavily trained as well. but I hear you bluOne, Ive done some training stateside, some of the stuff you learn is kinda nuts though, one of my trainers told me when you shoot a guy in your house sometimes you can still get prosecuted even though it was a home invasion so do things like piss your pants b4 the cops show up to help your "scared for your life" case in court. crazy stuff man, but its all helpful.
- canoe0
There's a pretty good argument that evil is evil, and no matter if we have automatic weapons readily available or not they will still get their hands on them.
To the contrary, it should be controlled and understood at least.
Personally I was kinda shocked how the FBI and police departments glorified themselves, well, they plugged one another for their effort again and again. All politics aside they should have been ashamed of themselves for not knowing anything about the deliveries.
All of them should be fired on the FBI side, or whoever is supposed to sniff this out.
Finally, I don't think this constitutes any further infringement on our privacy rights because the FBI can't properly track IED making material.
- monkeyshine0
^ I don't understand this logic. That's like saying evil is evil...people will always kill one another so legislating murder is pointless...and in fact we make it more complicated for those who happen to kill an evil person.
- BaskerviIle0
A little bit of background on UK gun laws and their impact for anyone interested.
Famously the majority of our police don't carry guns. This is because gun crime is very low by global standards.According to this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lis…
it's 0.46 deaths per 100,000 population (as opposed to 10.27 in the US).
Our equivalent of the Columbine massacre was in a little town in Scotland called Dunblane in 1996. A gunman shot 16 pupils and a teacher in a primary school (Tennis player Andy Murray was present at the school on the day of the attack, when he was 8 years old).
This caused such a reaction that the government brought in the 1997 firearms act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gu...This essentially banned the private ownership of handguns almost completely. After this, there was a gun amnesty. More than 160,000 guns were handed into the police following this.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/16…
This ban is so complete that even guns used for Olympic shooting events are banned, so our Olympic team have to go and train in other countries. The government are lifting the law for the next few weeks so allow the Olympic shooting events for our London Olympics.
In 2008 there were only 48 gun related deaths in the UK. Typically in the US there are about 30,000 per year.
Obviously we are a very different country to the US, smaller and with no way near the same history or relationship to guns in our culture. But it is fair to say that after a national gun-related tragedy, we did change our gun laws and it has had a big effect.
I've lived in London most of my life, and these days if you do ever hear of someone being shot, more often than not it's with a modified replica gun, altered to shoot live rounds. That's how hard it is for people to get hold of a gun. Yes, they still manage it if needed but it's much tougher for them to do so.
- CygnusZero40
"^ I don't understand this logic. That's like saying evil is evil...people will always kill one another so legislating murder is pointless...and in fact we make it more complicated for those who happen to kill an evil person."
People WILL always kill one another. No gun laws will ever stop that. If someone wants to kill, putting a ban on guns wont stop them from getting them. Most people in the US that have registered weapons have them to protect their loved ones at home, some are collectors, others just enjoy target practice or hunting.
Most crazy people and thugs that kill others dont have registered weapons, so laws are irrelevant to them anyway. You cant even get a license in any state if you have any prior arrest record. They're very strict about it. They do background checks, send letters to people that know you (not family members), so it's about as safe as it can be, and if they ban it well then a lot of people are going to make a lot of money illegally importing weapons.
Many drugs are illegal, and how many millions of people do them? You can go on a killing spree with a kitchen knife, we can't ban all those. Laws are not the problem, crazy people are the problem, and there's no fixing that.
- You must be pretty stupid if you don't understand the logic. Its pretty simple.qTime
- Rather have a kitchen knife spree, or seatbelt spree (as they're for protection), than machine guns and bombs.Peter
- Just look at the evidenceqTime
- Very simple.
Most of developed word - very strict gun laws - low level of gun crime.
USA - promotes buying guns - high level of gun crime.qTime - USA - promotes buying guns - high level of gun crime.qTime
- AGAIN...so why have laws at all? Murder? Jail? Not a deterrent to crazies so why bother? Makes no sense.monkeyshine
- ukit20
So how do you explain 48 gun deaths in the UK, vs 30,000 in the US?
Adjusted for population, its about 250 vs 30,000.
- logic, numbers, and facts do not apply to gun owners.CanHasQBN
- 30,000. That is just digusting. 3,000 people died on 9/11 and the country went insane over that. Um.... wtf?!CanHasQBN
- just because there are so many more is irrelevant, even 1 in each country is too much, guns are not the problemalbums
- uh, albums. did you not see these numbers to the left? how can we make this any more clearer?CanHasQBN
- Guns are banned in UK = 250 gun deaths. Guns are not banned in USA = 30,000 gun deaths.CanHasQBN
- I don't know how much simpler the evidence can get. Obviously, guns ARE the problem.CanHasQBN
- You can keep saying your line "people are the problem". Let them be the problem then...CanHasQBN
- I would rather have an UNarmed "person with a problem", than an armed "person with a problem".CanHasQBN
- What about a crazy armed person with a knife? You want to ban those too? It wont fix things.CygnusZero4
- Better a person attacking with a knife than a gun. MUCH better. You think 12 people would've died if he ran after themCanHasQBN
- ..trying to stab them?? Hell no.CanHasQBN
- Besides, as said before, a knife has a separate function. Food & Cooking. Guns were solely invented to kill.CanHasQBN
- You could use anything as a weapon if you hit someone with it hard enough. I'm not saying ban every object in the world...CanHasQBN
- But I draw the line at guns. They are far and away a more effective killing machine than any knife.CanHasQBN
- Cyg, I LOL at your "it won't fix things" line. It OBVIOUSLY fixes things, as can be seen in the stats to your left.CanHasQBN
- 2011 homicides by guns was 8,775. I'm not saying that's good number; I'm saying factual errors affect people's perception of your argument.melq
- ...perception of your argument.melq
- Ramanisky20
But for a civilian to legally go out and obtain an AR-15 assault rifle and 6,000 rounds of ammo online is fucking ridiculous.
Should'nt there be some kind of a red flags when this much ammunition is purchased in one shot .. Is this normal ?? So people purchase 6.000 rounds or more on the daily?
- albums0
everything melq said.
- CygnusZero40
Ukit, there are a ton of shithole towns and cities loaded with gangs carrying illegal weapons. Laws wouldn't change that at all since they're already running around with unregistered weapons.
I'll bet you 1 town, Compton California which is a known toilet, has more gun related deaths with illegal weapons than all of the UK in 1 year.
Laws wont fix that. The problem here is people, and some of these areas in the US that are very difficult to clean up. It's just a much bigger and a totally different place than the UK. You can't compare them. How many gangs you have running around in the UK? Not even remotely close to the amount that there is in the US. These guys dont have legal firearms. They cant even get them by law since you cant have an arrest record in any state and get a permit.
- albums0
society dismissed an entire race and generation out of fear now they've grown up to disagree with your wants & beliefs?
say it ain't so.
- monkeyshine0
@CygnusZero4 Well, a gang didn't shoot up a theatre or Gabby Gifford or...
Just because criminals already have guns or can acquire guns is no reason not to have stricter gun laws and frankly it's a page ripped out of the NRA's propoganda playbook.
- These are VERY rare situations and you know it.CygnusZero4
- CygnusZero40
This argument is stupid. It's no different than weed. You ban that and you think people will stop getting high? LOL, yeah ok, good luck with that.
Ban ever weapon in the US and let me know how that works out when suddenly there are tons of illegal weapons import operations going on, like there already is anyway.
Yeah just blame everything on laws when FAR more people kill people with illegal weapons anyway. Logic people. How do you fix the gun problem in the US? Clean up the towns that many of these murders happen in, but that's not very easy.
A guy killing some people in a theater with registered weapons is extremely rare so its not even worth mentioning that. It doesnt happen often anywhere.
- Weed is banned and Im pretty sure there are millions of people doing it. That worked out well.CygnusZero4
- monkeyshine0
@CygnusZero4...VERY rare? Are you kidding? http://denver.cbslocal.com/2012/…
...I don't think any of these acts were committed by gangs.
- 28 killings since Columbine: http://www.newsmax.c…monkeyshine
- CygnusZero40
^ Lol, oh yeah some incidents, not more than a couple per year are really often in a country with 300 million residents. Come on man. And how many of those were with unregistered weapons? I'll bet you anything a bunch of them were.
Keep blaming the acts of crazy people on some gun laws. These people were fucking nuts. You think a fucking law would stop them from carrying out their plans? Not really the brightest bunch in the world around here.
- CygnusZero40
You clowns sound like if a dude is fucking nuts, 1 little law will straighten his ass out and make it impossible for him to carry out a plan he is determined to see through.
Buncha geniuses on here.