religion
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- yurimon0
So what is the expectation of proof or what would count as proof for the existence of god etc. How would you know what it is? How do you know you havent missed it if you can grasp or even define the expectation. and what if your expectations of proof wrong.
- seriously? it would be simple as shit to determine if someone was a god.scarabin
- scarabin0
easy. how about: guy sits in a controlled environment and creates a world while scientists watch, complete with little humans 'n' shit. totally simple task for a god.
- next question?scarabin
- Well your in a place like that now. except you cant find proof.yurimon
- what?scarabin
- stop trying to be mystical and figurative. that's not the scenario i described.scarabin
- You in a world or environment with people that was created somehow. your missing the god or creation mystery part as proof.yurimon
- that's idiotic circular logic and you know itscarabin
- you're confusing the question with the answerscarabin
- ukit20
Can you prove that Earth wasn't colonized by an alien dictator named Xenu and his galactic army millions of years ago, leaving behind alien ghosts that control peoples' bodies? I think that's about as likely as Christianity...
- ukit20
Atheism shouldn't be that hard to understand...just think of a religion that you don't believe in, whether it's Scientology, Mormonism, Tokyo death cult, etc. I'm sure you can think of at least one religion that you think is bullshit. Now you understand how non religious people view all religions. Then ask yourself whether Christianity, or whatever it is you happen to believe in is really any different.
- ZOOP0
Babies born with terminal cancer. Explain that part of the "perfect plan" and then you'll have something. That is cruelty beyond anything that a loving deity would allow.
By the way I was born with congenital melanocytic nevus, across my abdomen, required surgery before it turned cancerous. I have a nice scar and an off center belly button from that.
Again... where is your god now?
- My case was advanced enough to protrude, and cracks formed throughout, it would fall out in pieces and replaced by more of the same.ZOOP
- the same. I won't pass this on, or anything else. My decision and my curse.ZOOP
- what have you been condition to think about this god topic? and where is this perfect plan concept coming from?yurimon
- ...ZOOP
- ukit20
- good god damn that's relentlessalbums
- and? where is the creation of the universe fossil?yurimon
- it melted in the corealbums
- If you read the whole comic, it makes some great points about how the evidence actually points to the lack of a "designer"ukit2
- designer.ukit2
- evidence of just theories. Can anyone explain consciousness?yurimon
- You keep asking for explanations...but notice how none of this does anything to make existence of God more likelyukit2
- likely. Just because we can't answer everything, doesn't mean that the least likely theory is true.ukit2
- not knowing for sure is theory not fact by default.yurimon
- ya! there's no proof that god doesn't exist. there for it exist!pango
- Why are babies born with terminal cancer? Because GOD! that's why!pango
- hereswhatidid0
The problem with the religious zealots like yuri is that they simply can't comprehend not having some kind of faith system. It's beyond them to understand that, as an atheist, the notion of faith doesn't apply. They simply make the false assumption that believing in observable, scientific evidence is our religion and that we blindly follow it. I'd gladly believe in a creator if, as scarabin pointed out, you could provide some solid evidence. Not this "we only observe .0000008 of everything" metaphysical bullshit.
- lol. geeze. 1.you dont know if i have religion or not. 2. 000 what ever # is done by a scientist, mathematician not a metaphysics guy.yurimon
- Being taught since infancy that there is a supreme being affects one's ability to see things otherwise.ZOOP
- not a metaphysics person. Faith " firm belief in something for which there is no proof"yurimon
- so, you can't prove a god or disprove thus your choice of not believing in one is still faithyurimon
- Only thing that would make it fact is if god does not exist if there was a scientific law. however there is non. thusyurimon
- it is a firm belief in something for which there is no proof ei faith.yurimon
- So far it seems that people coming out of the wood work have a firm belief.yurimon
- I can't believe you're still stuck on the idea that scientists operate on faith or belief. we've covered this alreadyscarabin
- it seems to be your only argument and it doesn't even work because it's not the casescarabin
- http://en.wikipedia.…hereswhatidid
- I'm not stuck on anything. you guys cant get over fact its faith by definition.yurimon
- LOL how can it be faith if you believe in nothing?pango
- i thought earth was flat because that's all we saw. but now we know earth is a sphere shape because new evidence surfaced.pango
- more people will believe god exist if there are any convincing evidence.pango
- i = we....pango
- scarabin0
it's clear yuri isn't responding to reason as he's still operating under the science=faith delusion he came in here with. I can only assume he's trying trolling us
- Dude. Can you read?
" firm belief in something for which there is no proof." ei faith.yurimon - thats you guys. still cant put it together?yurimon
- I know, you've been typing that all day. scientists don't have a firm belief in that which has no evidence, so no faith.scarabin
- Thats not true because some scientist keep firm beliefs not for the sake of truth but for sake of grants and keeping a job.yurimon
- then they aren't scientists and it's idiotic to assume all users of science are like that.scarabin
- it's like saying some cars are broken and have 2 wheels therefore cars have 2 wheels.scarabin
- you can't be taken seriously as long as you're coddling this logical fallacy.scarabin
- Dude. Can you read?
- pango0
so what if god exist and we don't acknowledge. it's not like he gonna help us with our life. we are dusts compare to this god figure you talk about. why would this god thing care about us?
we are better off not to care and just mind our own life.
- yurimon0
Ok. one more time.
this in written in plain english. websters dictionary.
"firm belief in something for which there is no proof" = faith.
^
If you have "a firm believe that there is no god because for which there is no proof" .. it falls under faith by definition. plain fuckin english.Not faith is "maybe there is no god and maybe there is a god." No firm belief.
- sorry typos. typed fast.yurimon
- It's easy to say you have faith in something without fact. Fact isn't given it's earned by sacrifice of time and effort.ZOOP
- well... I have no firm believe there is god or no god. until someone proof to me either one, I have no faith. lolpango
- when someone tells me "hey man there's god" I'll be like "cool story bro! you'd like fries with that?"pango
- what scientists are saying is "there is no evidence for god". if god shows up they will accept it. you're adding all the belief bullshit.scarabin
- bullshit so you can shoehorn the word "faith" in.scarabin
- science doesn't make up a conclusion and have faith in it, that's what religion does. science collects data and makes predictions based on observed data and probability.scarabin
- predictions based on observed data and probability. you are operating on an inaccurate idea of what science is.scarabin
- you can't have any valid viewpoint or logical discourse on the matter until you stop operating on incorrect assumptions.scarabin
- assumptions.scarabin
- bobkat0
As Hitchen's said “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” The onus of proof of a God is not on the Atheist, but on the Believer.
Want me to belive in God? Show me the proof. Otherwise there isn't one. Want me to belive Elvis is still alive? Let me meet him. Otherwise there ain't no way in hell I'm gonna belive someone who comes up to me on the street and claims that Elvis is alive. Likewise God.
Simples.
- Scientists are happy to change their world view if the evidence suggests that a theory is correct. Religious nutter ain't.bobkat
- Thats cool and thats your faith.yurimon
- once again, it's not faithmonospaced
- ukit20
^ Exactly, I don't think most people are completely ruling out the existence of God, we're just saying it's extremely unlikely. Especially a God as depicted in the Bible that watches over people and intervenes in the world. The idea of a God that is all knowing, all powerful and cares about humans can pretty much be debunked just on a theoretical level. So why waste time on a theory that is contradicted by evidence when there are so many other possibilities?
- locustsloth0
Let's take the following statement:
"i believe that there is sentient life on another planet somewhere in the universe, do you?"
So what's your answer?
If it's yes, you are operating on faith.
If it's no, you are using current evidence to base your opinion.
In time, either viewpoint could be proven wrong.
Same goes for a belief in a higher power (god, whatever). You can exhibit faith that there is one. You can deny the presence of one based on a current absence of evidence. At any point in time, you could be proven wrong.
In my mind, atheists are just agnostics who are afraid of ambiguity.
i, personally, would count myself as an agnostic. i feel it's arrogant to say you know enough about our existence to definitively answer the question of whether there is a god or not.
It is amazing the power, freedom and comfort that allowing yourself to say "i don't know" can bring you.
- ZOOP0
A few thoughts and I will let this conversation rest for the meantime.
Human perception although expanded beyond our physical senses is still limited. We do know enough to realize that our current state of enlightenment is only at 4% of the calculated total.
An entity with almost limitless powers is highly improbable, so the time scale has to be taken into account when considering the existence of such. It is actually possible for something to exist on the extreme macroscopic, beyond any method of detection to date.
While many accounts of the Christian bible have been proven incorrect (some even conflict with each other), the city of Troy was believed to be a myth until discovered and proven as scientific fact.
Spirituality is a personal and emotional subject. It's not easy for humans to come to terms with their fundamental beliefs being disrupted at the core level. Change can be hard to accept, no matter which direction it takes.
Religion is comfort to many for questions that have no answers, and even if those questions are resolved eventually, acceptance isn't guaranteed.
In summary my personal view is if your beliefs (no matter what they are) bring happiness to you and those around you, so be it, just don't let it become a reason to belittle or judge anyone; it's not. Keep an open mind on all fronts yet to be seen for everything they truly are, regardless of the outcome.
Above all.... peace =)
- GeorgesIV0
so, why is atheism not a religion yet?
I still don't get why, strongly not believing in a god, forming movements and "churches", evangelizing the word of the great sagan dawkinsdegrasse, putting science and state instead of faith and clergy so different from a normal day to day cult,
is the dissonance force field that strong?
- Because God! That's why!pango
- it is the answer to everything!pango
- who thinks it is a religion? I've never heard someone utter this in real life.inteliboy
- nutjobs on the internet and on right wing media do not count.inteliboy
- nut jobs? such prose, such vocab, atheism is a religion, give it another 10 yearsGeorgesIV
- OK! :) so... when do we know it's officially a religion? when there's an actual church of atheism and not as a joke?pango
- let's say atheism began mimicking the practices of some religions. so what? there's still no god, all they did was build a building and call it a church. christians building churches isn't an issue, christians being fucking idiots and burning others down is.scarabin
- building and call it a church. christians building churches isn't an issue, christians being fucking idiots and burning others down in the name of an imaginary being is.scarabin
- the name of an imaginary being is.scarabin
- ritual isn't inherently bad, it's the ideas behind them that matter.scarabin
- pango0
God's Children.
</thread>- am I the only one who wants to fap into her mouth when she talks?ZOOP
- If all movements/philosophi... were judged by the least intelligent of their followers, none would be worthy of recognitionlocustsloth
- "do dogs have brains?" LOLscarabin
- lol ZOOP********
- Palin?BusterBoy
