Politics
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- mikotondria30
Lest we forget we ever ever have a choice:
http://www.edgemediatv.com/artic…
- tommyo0
You're right in a sense. But wrong that it's just a Republican issue. Tell me more about your pristine white Democratic Congress please. And also consider this: once a 'free' health care system is in place, is it EVER going to go away? We're leveraged right now as it is.
I agree that this new breed of Republicans is HORRIBLY out of touch. But so are the Democrats. Republicans may talk about 'less government' but Democrats almost outright promote 'more government.' Hillary said, 'I've got great ideas for this country, it just can't afford them' (quoting from memory). But I could do with 'less ideas' for this country and getting back to our roots for a good 20 years. I just want off the rollercoaster man, pure and simple. I think both branches of our government are fucked up liars who are more interested in personal gain than being responsible public servants.
Okay seriously I gotta go. Sorry for starting a fire and leaving. :(
- I love how you expect the Dems to undo 8 years of GOP fuck-ups within 1 year.Mimio
- No but I kind of expected them to do SOMETHING in a year though.
http://online.wsj.co…tommyo - Some notable achievements:
"set July 28 as the Day of the American Cowboy"tommyo - "saluted such milestones as the Idaho Potato Commission's 70th anniversary"tommyo
- "recognized soil as an "essential natural resource.""tommyo
- Seriously. No lie.tommyo
- teleos0
interesting...
- Interesting that they would bother polling people's self diagnosis.Mimio
- Ignorance must be bliss.Mimio
- breaking news: delusional people are delusionalhallelujah
- http://www.gallup.co…Mimio
- Check out the Clinton vs. McCain one. Ridiculous.Jaline
- teleos0
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp…
seems irrespective of who is in the whitehouse too. ...it must be blissful ignorance. But I'm not really a Republican so I'm not sure.
- teleos0
"But then when you realize that elitism, materialism, Darwinism, moral relativism, post-modernism, socialism, abortion, euthanasia, loathing of the religious, disrespect of America’s founding, the “living constitution,” the celebration of sodomy, speech codes ... have moved mostly over on to one side of the political spectrum ... what do you expect?"
(anonymous post on a forum)
ouch!
- please don't pretend to try and understand politics as well, you just waste my monitor space.mikotondria3
- who told them about the sodomy parade? I thought that was a secret.monkeyshine
- teleos is all-knowinghallelujah
- Larry Craig wants his party back!Mimio
- I think the only thing Craig was guilty of, in that list, is the "sodomy" part.teleos
- 'guilty' of sodomy ?
He should only be guilty if he didnt do it very well. Start slowly and use lots of lube.mikotondria3 - love pleasure is no sin********
- is that absolutely true, or true just for you?teleos
- only you would know the absolute truthhallelujah
- robotron3k0
speaking of upcoming disasters and Homeland Security, what happens if you add Sesame Street to the mix
- TheBlueOne0
"Our government has fucked up Schools, Social Security and just about every financially related social issue it has touched. Why is health care going to be different? Riddle me that Batman."
-TommyO
Has it? Social Security is actually pretty solvent (imagine if Bush had succeeded in privatizing it at the beginning of his second term? It would be *poof* up in smoke now). Last I read up on it, SS is OK. Government has run the Postal Service pretty well. It runs the military well. It negotiates international trade pretty well. And across the board the school system isn't too bad and has more to do with local conditions than federal spending mandates. Our universities - public and private - are the best in the fucking world (thanks in a large part to public grants). Not bad for a system that oversees about 300,000,000 people.
This whole "whatever the government touches sucks" meme is just right-wing pablum that has been hoisted on us since Reagan. Government can lead to excess, as any concentration of power can, and it's the people who make up the government that should bring it back in line - there are methods of recourse. But concentration of power in private hands with all this Free Market Circle Jerk leads to the same place it always has in history - monopoly, oligarchy.
There is no such thing as a "free market" - a market is a social construct as much as anything else and
May I remind you that the unions begged Detroit auto manufactures to join with them to implement National Healthcare back in the 50's. Detroit told them to fuck off thinking they could fund healthcare and pension systems themselves and use that pool of money to invest and scoop off additional profits. That model failed, and what's left of US manufactures has to compete now with global companies form Europe and Asia that don't have to carry healthcare and pension costs on their balance sheets. The inability of management to work with unions together at that point set up decades of Unions and managment at odds over these things and gave the power to unions to become too big for their own good.
Sure I would like to give as little as possible of my money to a government that fritters away money by funding stupid useless wars and lining the pockets of capitalists when they fail. But that's because the government is corrupt, not because government in general is a bad thing.
Governments govern. It's a job, and an expensive but important one.
Your brain governs you. It also uses up a pretty high percentage of your calories to do what it does. Brains/governance is expensive. Now if your brain is getting you to a happy place by making good decisions - you have a job, a roof, money in the bank, getting laid regularly, get good excercise, etc...than that good government is worth it. If your brain is making decisions to have you sit in front of a computer screen masturbating to Paris Hilton videos and scarfing down doritos and bags of pepsi, it's making bad decisions and not worth it.
But the thing is to get your brain to make better decisions, not to drown your brain in the proverbial bath tub. I mean unless your answer to lack of discipline is to say "Wow, we;re jerking off to much, owe to much money, getting fat..you know what - I think I need less brains! 'Cause it's eating up all these calories and it's making shitty decisions for me. I'm going for the less brain option..."
As some one smarter than me said "Liberals have an irrational childlike faith in the government. Conservatives have an irrational childlike faith in corporations. Libertarians have an irrational childlike hatred of both."
I, like the founders, am very wary of government. I have no faith in it doing the common good if left to it's own devices. This is doubly true of any "free market". Government, markets, etc. are human tools, human inventions..the minute we think they have some sort of inherent quality other than what we give them then we give into ideology - of either the "left" or the "right"..we operate on assumptions and not facts...
- jonatne0
☮
- ********0
hence forth I am adding "tax-free" in front of every mention of "church"
for example,
He was a pastor at the tax-free church on 14th street.
or
The priest suggested he should not be given absolution because it violated the tenants of his tax-free church.
- TheBlueOne0
OK, one more rant here and then I am done for the day. I know most of you are too young to remember the Carter presidency. I was a young kid, barely in elementary school. Carter has been a punching bag for the Right for thirty years now. You're probably all heard about the famous "malaise" speech he gave in 1979 during that first Energy Crisis.How many of you have actually read it? Carter was basically saying to America, during this energy crisis, in the wake of Vietnam and all the social problems of the era that America had lost it's way and it would be hard work to get back on track. He essentially asking all of America to reaffirm what Freedom really was and what it meant in an American context:
"We are at a turning point in our history. There are two paths to choose. One is a path I've warned about tonight, the path that leads to fragmentation and self-interest. Down that road lies a mistaken idea of freedom, the right to grasp for ourselves some advantage over others. That path would be one of constant conflict between narrow interests ending in chaos and immobility. It is a certain route to failure....All the traditions of our past, all the lessons of our heritage, all the promises of our future point to another path, the path of common purpose and the restoration of American values. That path leads to true freedom for our nation and ourselves. We can take the first steps down that path as we begin to solve our energy problem."
Read the whole speech here if you'd like (and you should): http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/car…
But think about what he was asking there. What he was saying, his words again - "There are two paths to choose. One is a path I've warned about tonight, the path that leads to fragmentation and self-interest. Down that road lies a mistaken idea of freedom, the right to grasp for ourselves some advantage over others."
Then Reagan (or rather Reagan-ism) walked in and said "Hey, it's morning in America. greed is good. Take what you can get when you can get it and fuck the other guy. Government IS the problem."
And that's the way America went. Because it was easy. Because the US had just had a hard decade and didn't want to face up to the hard truths of what Freedom means in our historical context. Well, Carter was right. And those proverbial chickens we ran away form deluding ourselves that some sort of morning had broken have come home to roost. Every president since Reagan hasn't changed a damn thing. Bush, Clinton, Bush...all essentially Reagan. None has taken up what Carter threw down and all went the other way and ignored the gorilla in the room. Carter had a flawed presidency, but he was one of the most principled and honest men who has ever held that office.
If you look across the expanse of American history, of what times are we the proudest of? What moments define us as a people? What made us Great? And not great as a powerful nation, but as a nation of principle, of emulation? It is the moments of self-sacrifice for the greater good and for the principles of freedom for everyone. Somehow in the last thirty years the whole idea of greed has become synonymous with the American character - not only at home, but abroad. The city shining on the hill? Well the lights are going out. The really sad thing is, when you speak like this, or say invoke these words of Carter - somehow, with the narrow lexicon of the right you become un-american. To speak of sacrifice is to somehow be less american. Strange place we got these days.
- "It is the moments of self-sacrifice for the greater good" - a very anti-individualistic sentiment. I like.teleos
- mg330
Serious LOL Action here!
Palin tells a crowd that she'll put the US Budget on line for all to view just like she did in Alaska, and SURPRISE TO THIS CLUELESS OUTSIDER WANNABE REFORMER: BARACK OBAMA ALREADY DID IT!!!!!!
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn…
CEDAR RAPIDS, Iowa (CNN) – Sarah Palin likes to tell voters around the country about how she “put the government checkbook online” in Alaska. On Thursday, Palin suggested she would take that same proposal to Washington.
“We’re going to do a few new things also,” she said at a rally in Cedar Rapids. “For instance, as Alaska’s governor, I put the government’s checkbook online so that people can see where their money’s going. We’ll bring that kind of transparency, that responsibility, and accountability back. We’re going to bring that back to D.C.”
There’s just one problem with proposing to put the federal checkbook online – somebody’s already done it. His name is Barack Obama.
In 2006 and 2007, Obama teamed up with Republican Sen. Tom Coburn to pass the Federal Funding Accountability and Transparency Act, also known as “Google for Government.” The act created a free, searchable web site – USASpending.gov — that discloses to the public all federal grants, contracts, loans and insurance payments.
In June of this year, Obama and Coburn introduced new Senate legislation to expand the information available online to include details on earmarks, competitive bidding, criminal activities, audit disputes and other government information.
Palin might also have noted that her running mate, John McCain, was an original co-sponsor of the 2006 transparency bill that became law.
--
Just browse the comments on there, they are priceless.
- colin_s0
it's absolutely ridiculous that people take outright lies as gospel so long as the person preaching is wearing a flag lapel pin.
i hate politicians and i've never been a big fan of obama's, but at least george bush waited to lie until he got into office like most politicians. mccain and palin's campaign is lowering the bar significantly, both in the amount of respect politicians owe the people they serve and the intelligence level of anyone who decides to run for major public office.
this certainly is saying something after eight years of skippy mcdumbass and the fear brigade.
- tommyo0
TBO,
Thank you for those posts. You and I are actually much closer in opinion than you or I probably had realized previously. I know that what I believe is not very popular on this board. Which is fine by me. The main reason why I do come here to post is to possibly open up the air waves in this thick cloud of Obamaohmygodjaculation. I think the part that separates our ideals is our general faith in Government as an institution. I simply believe that giving the government too much (if any) access to our lives is a huge no-no. You need to look no further than something as simple as cigarettes. I grew up in the Regan era and as a small boy I remember being on airplanes full of smoke, or at least that's the way I remember it. Then when I was in Jr High I remember when they banned smoking inside restaurants near where I lived in Sacramento. The reason was that other, more health conscious people, didn't want to be around it. Then it was banned in public areas. Somewhere along the lines it was taxed because of the overarching health costs that smokers might incur and pass on to the state. Then it was taxed again, and again, and again. Now we've got people pushing for taxes on potato chips and sodas here in California, how long before those are deemed worthy of substantial taxing due to the potential costs of obesity? This, to me, is way way way too intrusive. It's a slippery slope and how long before the government is not controlling what we shouldn't do...but they're telling us what we can do. Sounds Orwellian I know. But really, chips and sodas are now on the same examining table cigarettes were 20 years ago.
Now, what happens when our government is in charge of our health. Not just potential problems that may arise and cost the state money. Doesn't that give them even more access into our daily lives because, well, they're paying for it.
Yes I'm more aligned politically as a Libertarian. Their philosophy fits my ideals and goals in terms of my relationship with my government. I don't want my government to have any more power than deemed necessary. Protect me from others who aim to do direct harm to me (which means no preemptive bullshit wars). Keep my cost of living low. I can and will do the rest. I'll reveal something about me that's a little bit personal. My family is actually fairly wealthy. But, I was raised and still live without the benefits of, or access to any of that wealth. My family raised me to do it on my own. The only time I have ever borrowed money was to buy an old truck to drive, and the first time I asked for the loan I was denied. Finally, I had to ask my grandmother to charge me interest for the loan and she relented...she charged me 2 points more than the current bank rate. I paid everything in full, principle, interest and a late fee. How this relates? I don't want a government to 'help' me do anything. If I had let my family pay for all the thing I've accomplished on my own then who knows who I'd be today. I don't have much if any faith in our government, I don't trust them to do the right thing, and can you really blame me? It's not a Republican and Democrat thing either. Sure the last 8 years has been flawed to say the least, and you're right about what Carter said, I think that was one of his finer moments. We do need to make the tough choices as a country and we did then too. But allowing Government into our lives means that you have to trust them to work in your interest. I don't. Instead what I see are PR firms making these guys as likable as possible, candidate branding, analysts working on what issues will get the most votes, lobbyists, milllllions and milllllllions of dollars spent to get elected, and corruption. It's silly and absolutely shameful that we all put up with it...or you know, show how active we are by slapping each other on the backs in a graphic design forum.
I'm not a rich man, I do alright though and I make my way. I'm also a diabetic who pays around $150 a month for my insulin. I've been living without health coverage for over 2 years now. I just got into my family's company health care plan but I had to work for them just to get it, just like any other employee. Personally I'd love to have free health care, but A) I don't believe in giving the government control over my health and B) I don't think it's financially a smart thing for our country to commit to. Oh and the important part...it's not fucking free. It's more like 'We're not going to show you the bill Health Care.'
Our politicians today look inward and not forward. Make re-electionable (new word) decisions and not long term decisions based on what's good for this country. So TBO, in conclusion I do agree with a lot that you have written. I didn't address the things in which make us similar, but expanded upon thing that I believe, after reading a lot of your posts, make us unique.
- I think we've just dawned on an era of Long Posting™tommyo
- interesting. i am also a libertarian and dislike both candidates and parties. as sad as it is, i may abstain from voting.sputnik2
- Wooo hooo I have a new friend in sputnik. :)tommyo
- w00t! i try to stay out of this thread given how one-sided and belligerent some can be about this subject.sputnik2
- p.s. i come from a socialist country, hence my aversion to anything resembling such a thing.sputnik2
- tommyo - I am a passionate dick when it comes to politics. Don't take anything personally...TheBlueOne
- ...I love a good drag out blowout political argument and then grabbing a beer...TheBlueOne
- ..and I do miss honest-to-god conservatives...TheBlueOne
- Sputnik, I know exactly what you mean about the unification in this place. I think swimming up river is fun though. hehetommyo
- TBO, I always hate writing about this stuff online because of the lack of tone. But trust me I haven't taken anything ...tommyo
- personally. I appreciate other points of view almost as much as I like grand standing on an issue I feel strongly about. :Ptommyo
- i actually really enjoy TBO's opinion and point of view. he's one of the few exceptions to the leftist rule here. carry on, TBO!sputnik2
- I'm more post-leftist than leftist....TheBlueOne
- Likewise. TBO does bring up great points of view (every once in a while... ) :Ptommyo
- damn internets and their lack of tone...TheBlueOne
- bulletfactory0
Unfortunately, whoever has the (mis)fortune of taking over office is going to be target-practice by the public and the media. With as many issues as the US has, the president (staff, aides, etc) are going to be performing triage on those problems, that will take 4+ years to solve, and may not make as much headway in their new policies and visions as we are all hoping
Regardless of who takes over, their first term may likely be looked at as failure..... But I sure hope not.
My Obama/Biden yard sign arrived today!
oh - and if this has already been stated, sorry - i haven't read all of the posts.
- ..or it could be an historic presidency. Our best presidents served at times of crisis...TheBlueOne
- great point - and what I am hoping for!!!bulletfactory
- TheBlueOne0
Well, I get the whole "I dislike both parties and all the candidates suck" thing. I really, really do. But really, it's what we have to deal with.I think going with the "third party" candidate is essentially useless at this time, while I admire either the principled or raw subversiveness of such a stance. And those that choose not to vote because they're too detached or cool? Fuck them.
So you gotta man up and say, well between these two knuckleheads and they're attendant lackeys, who can I vote for.
I like Obama, I do. And I get off on the whole well crafted campaign he has been running - from the ground game to the graphic design.I apprecaite it. He has a nuance and subtlety not seen in presidential politics in a looong time. I admire it, professionally speaking. I am also wary of it. Aesthetics and politics can be a dangerous route to demagougery. I am trusting that an Obama presidency will entail increased citizen interest and participation in their own governance, something that has been sorely lacking in our republic. If Obama turns out to be another mouthpiece for interests I won't be suprised, but I will be disappointed. One hopes.
I like(d) McCain as well at one point,maybe eight , ten years ago. I lost all respect for him when he punked out to Rove\Bush in the 2000 primaries. Dude got smeared all over the place and then played huggy kissy with Bush afterwards. Hey, I know it's all politics, but that was some bad mojo he was on the recieving end of and he just took it. ANd now the samepeople who smeared him then are running his campaign. There is no way that McCain of 1998 would've picked a Palin to run with. He's already shown he's beholden to interests that be. The smoke mirror and lipsticked pig show is just the political machinery running by themselves with nothing behind it...
I think we have to give Obama a shot...if that doesn't work then as Jefferson said, maybe a little revolution is in order...
- mikotondria30
"The main reason why I do come here to post is to possibly open up the air waves in this thick cloud of Obamaohmygodjaculation."
Well thank heavens you arrived to clear up how to think.
We were all kinda floundering until you came sailing into view with your 'opinions'.
Shall I sit over here, or would you rather we stand ?- I said 'open the air waves,' not 'change minds'. If you never believe anything I say, believe this: Nothing has ever been ...tommyo
- solved on an internet chatroom.tommyo
- I know, Im just 'lashing out' and pulling your chain. Im enjoying your ability to have and opinion and write :)mikotondria3
- hahaahhaha! Well thanks I think. :Ptommyo
- I just like the word "Obamaohmygodjaculat...TheBlueOne
- I came up with that all by myself. It was Obamajaculation, then expanded try and capture the excitement people have.tommyo
- sputnik20
i agree with you on so many levels TBO, but bigger government is a problem for me, as are greater taxes, especially the capital gains tax. finally, my biggest problem is that i'm pro-choice, but i feel VERY strongly against late-term abortions. i'm a mother, it's a deal-breaker. this election is so conflicting for me and although i am loathe to skip voting this time (since it will be my very first opportunity to vote), i might just do that :(
- It(s not bigger government per se,it's government with no oversight that's the problem...TheBlueOne
- ..and being an adult is about making compromises..that's how the real world works...TheBlueOne
- ..everyone one running aroundwith lines in the sand solves nothing except strokes egos...TheBlueOne
- fair enoughsputnik2
- mikotondria30
It doesn't matter who you vote for - McCain is more of the same Bush/Regan clan, whereas Obama is just more of the people behind Carter (think Russian invasion of afghanistan, formation of al-qaeda)..
http://moderate.wordpress.com/20…It's all bullshit.
Bullshit bullshit bullshit, it doesnt matter 2 fucks who you think gets 'into power', it'll be the same cunts in charge of the money and the army and they'll carry on doing whatever the fuck they want and there aint shit you can do about it. Suck it up, stop playing this facile and futile time-wasting game and get comfortable while you bend over, cause it's gonna carry on for a good long while yet.- Im pissed off. I had genuine hope that Obama was different, then I find out about Brzezinski. Sack of shit.mikotondria3
- i couldn't agree moresputnik2
- If those helicopters didn't crash on the desert, the Carter presidency might have turned out very differently you know...TheBlueOne
- mikotondria30
I'd swap a 'bigger' government that taxed more and got more done, for one that was utterly corrupt and run by the corporations.
There's no chance of that with either party.
- tommyo0
What I think about voting 3rd party:
- They aren't going to win
- But if enough people vote third party, then I know two parties who might start scratching their heads and start paying a little more attention to us voting stock folks.