sam harris
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- flagellum0
By the way, why aren't pro-theism speakers and authors championed and praised here on NT?
- flagellum0
I wonder if Harris would be willing to debate William Lane Craig...
- algorithm0
By the way, why aren't pro-theism speakers and authors championed and praised here on NT?
flagellum
(Oct 5 06, 07:33)because they support the opposite of your earlier statement.
I mean, who cares? Let people believe what they will if we're all just going to return to dust and there's nothing more than the 70 years we spend here on this marble.
flagellum
(Oct 5 06, 07:33)they do care , and they make it their mission to cram it down our throats that those 70 years we are alive we better live how they tell us because they are guided by god.
- Mimio0
Which argument is Harris making that's been "demolished time and time again"?
- flagellum0
Mimio: One of the strategies of his new book, based on the write up on his site, is to demonstrate that Christians are violent hate-filled people and that this indicates that the Christian faith is powerless or false. A form of the genetic fallacy.
- flagellum0
Mimio are you a theist?
- mrdobolina0
flagellum, he is an equal opportunity offender. He speaks out about christianity, islam and judaism. but you choose to pick out christianity because you are so damned biased.
- flagellum0
mrdobolina, it's so hard to tell whether you are dishonest or just a tad dense. Or perhaps both. My first post was regarding theism in general. My response to mimio was take from the writeup on his site.
- mrdobolina0
dishonest?
his points about not respecting people's religious beliefs is dead on.
people don't respect my mathematical belief that 2+2=5
so why should they respect your belief that jesus will descend from the heavens on a golden chariot to save you like superman.
One (mathematics) is respected as a science and your religious belief has no basis in reality other than the fact that the bible tells you it is the infallible word of god.
- Mimio0
So in your opinion his key argument is that Christians are just hatful people? You think he's hinging his entire position on that? I don't agree.
In my view he's saying they're not intellectually accountable therefore their viewpoint doesn't need to be respected in society. In fact he illustrates quite clearly that large groups of Christians hold beliefs purely because they are doctines of faith even when they contradict reason and fact.
- flagellum0
I have no beef with some of Harris's criticisms against organized religious groups. My issue is with his arguments against theism in general.
You have a belief that 2+2=5 because the same science demonstrates that you have a cognizant rational mind which employs logic (sometimes in your case). And this is something that chance + necessity does not produce. Rather designing intelligence produces this. Biogenesis - life comes from life.
As for Jesus's return: we can be confident of Biblical doctrines because there is sound historical evidence which supports that Jesus is who he said he was and that the tomb was empty. So my "religious belief" is based ultimately on sound historical evidence.
- flagellum0
Mimio: I didn't say that his entire position hinges on that argument. I said it was one of his tactics. And I would agree with him that many Christians stumble thru life believing things without any foundation. I would argue however that Biblical doctrines have not been contradicted by "fact".
- mrdobolina0
your condescension is just unreal.
Do you believe Mohammed ascended to the heavens on a winged horse?
- mrdobolina0
how can you square noah's ark with reality?
how about turning water into wine? feeding 1,000 people with one fish, etc etc etc.
these all fly in the face of reality, sir.
IT'S MAGIC!
- flagellum0
"our condescension is just unreal."
a. That's the pot calling the kettle black.
b. It's just spirited debate. We can take reasonable jabs at one another without being hateful.
Mohammed's ascension: I believe that the Islamic religion is a religion of men and is comprised of myths. How is your question relevant to Harris's position?
- flagellum0
define reality, mrdobolina. And why should "reality" exclude the supernatural? Tell me, what natural mechanism or process of "reality" do you believe launched all matter and energy into existance at the Big Bang?
- Mimio0
Flagellum it's relevant because boths are extraordinary claims without proof. Monuments and empty tombs aren't proof.
- mrdobolina0
he uses that as an example.
- mrdobolina0
define reality, mrdobolina. And why should "reality" exclude the supernatural? Tell me, what natural mechanism or process of "reality" do you believe launched all matter and energy into existance at the Big Bang?
flagellum
(Oct 5 06, 08:08)the fact that you can't feed 1,000 people with one fish?
Snap out of it, man.
- mrdobolina0
science tries to explore the big bang, you define it as a ghost story.