Jesus Camp
- Started
- Last post
- 172 Responses
- Meeklo0
^
gramme:
that statement was very true, but it's obvious you haven't seen the movie, otherwise you would know the difference between "teaching" and "forcing/ brain washing"
...................................
On the subject of Harry Potter, “warlocks are enemies of God . . . and had it been in the old testament, Harry Potter would have been put to death.” -Becky Fischer (adult)“Amen” –Crowd
- harry potter is shite, off with his head!ismith
- Well that's just plain retarded. Those people are not the majority, for whatever it's worth.gramme
- Trust me on that.gramme
- It was never my intention to suggest it was the majority, I was talking about the documentary onlyMeeklo
- in fact:
http://www.qbn.com/t…Meeklo
- airey0
what a long thread of bollocks. shit almighty. the doco shows people that are simply batshit crazy. the fact that they're at a religious camp is kinda an aside to the fact that fundamentalists of any ilk are fucking nuts. fun to watch but nuts.
- ukit0
You know what's kind of interesting, have ever you noticed that even people who are not religious tend to buy into the Christian portrayal of Jesus? By that I mean the idea that Jesus was a super nice guy, altruistic, helped the poor, etc etc. And for all we know maybe he was. We don't really know much about Jesus except that he claimed to experience supernatural contact with God, was murdered by the Romans, and looked kind of like a benevolent Middle Eastern hippie.
But on the other hand consider the closest things we've got to a modern Jesus. That would be people like Joseph Smith, L. Ron Hubbard, and David Koresh. Most people, even members of other religions, wouldn't give them a pass on their claims of supernatural experience and so on just because they preached some things that happen to be positive. Instead they would describe them as amoral, delusional con artists.
So in the end, if you DON'T believe in The Bible, one of the following has to be true:
a) Jesus didn't exist.
b) Jesus was a kind hearted, selfless guy who was deified by his followers who falsified large parts of his life story.
c) Jesus was delusional or lying, due to being a massive egomaniac, con artist, or complete nutcase.
If personality types tend to repeat themselves, Jesus could have been a lot more like a Joseph Smith or a David Koresh than most people think. Saying you are the Son of God actually goes beyond what most of those guys even claimed. Isn't it even possible he faked his own death in order to say that he had "risen from the dead?"
I guess this is all pointless speculation in the end, and maybe Jesus really was nice/hippie Jesus. Or maybe he never existed. But if it does happen to be true, the implication is kind of disturbing, because it means that the Western world for the past 2,000 years has been following the teachings of a delusional con artist.
- Yeah, I find it offensive because obviously you don't know what you're talking about. I may be the most open christian ever,GeorgesII
- but you're rant is pure speculation, I have faith because I believe in an ideal, you believe obviously believe people with faith are all dumb shit who got con,GeorgesII
- faith are dumb shit,
why is it that only in US christian are bat shit crazy, have you ever wonder why? you don't see this in korea,GeorgesII - in korea, you don't see it in Irak, you don't see it in belgium nor italy, you only see crazy christians in the USA. this is the problemGeorgesII
- problemGeorgesII
- I see crazy christians and normal christians no matter where i am. are you fucking kidding me? the us just has issues with nationalism.spifflink
- nationalism. no reason to get bent out of shape. dont put religion on a pedestal. anything worth believing has to survive speculation.spifflink
- speculationspifflink
- ukit0
^ Hopefully that's not offensive to anyone, just throwing it out there
- SPECTACULAR0
MINUS
PLUS
EQUALS
- sea_sea0
koo-kooo!
- pillhead0
I missed God Camp, but I did watch Curb Your Enthusiasm, the one where it's OK to come round your house and knock one out.
- gramme0
Actually ukit, you're on to something, given a few minor errors.
We actually do know a lot about Jesus; not only was he written up in four corroborating canonical gospels, but his life was also catalogued by Jewish and Roman historians, some of whom (like Josephus) were not Christians.
But you are absolutely right about the "what-ifs." That is: either (1) Jesus is the Messiah, God in flesh, the second person of the Trinity; (2) a prophet whose followers posthumously deified him; or (3) a charlatan and a liar; or (4) mentally unstable and fit for the bin.
The claims Jesus made are so outrageous that his opponents (the Pharisees, a strict Jewish sect) tried to kill him on numerous occasions for what they perceived as blasphemy. Jesus not only said he was the Son of God, aka the Son of Man as prophesied in the book of Daniel, but he told people "Before Abraham was, I AM." This last statement is high blasphemy if it's not true. He's claiming two things: first, that he preceded Abraham, who walked the earth 2,000 years before Christ. Secondly, he's taking on a name only used by Yahweh (God the Father) in referring to himself in the Old Testament. The name "I AM" in Hebrew has implications of eternal existence outside the constraints of time.
Furthermore, Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father except through me." That statement alone leaves us with two choices. (1) Either it's true, and we live accordingly, or (2) it's a false statement, either an outright lie or a delusion. So there we have it, A B or C: God, liar, or madman. Only one of these three options can be correct.
Based on the above, I think it's more logically tenable to reject Jesus altogether than to half-heartedly buy into only some of the things he said and did.
- BRNK0
GeorgesII, you claim about only US christians being crazy if fucking bullshit. How about the Sabra and Shatila massacre in 1982, in which Lebanese christians massacred thousands of muslim civilians? ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sab… ) Do I even need to point to the historical elephant in the room. *cough* The Crusades.
Not only do you have a selective memory, you're making a virtue out of believing something without any evidence (and in fact the presence of substantial evidence against this particular idea, even by your own definition) ...which in any context apart from religion is referred to as ignorance.
- GeorgesII0
BRNK
You make the same usual error as every atheist, to compare christianism with the catholic church or any evangelic denomination.
Half of them don't know the bible, like most atheist never even read the origin of species...
My faith is personal, I grew up in a family where we had the choice to believe or not
and actually I found my faith at a late age.you point at examples and englobe billions of believers out there. A killing is a killing no matter who does it, you can pinpoint it to a particular group or faith, people that commit atrocity are murderers, punto e basta, they can be muslims, buddhist, daoist, new agers, christians, methodist, evangelist, mormons, masons, lutherans, atheist [...] at the end of the day they are murderers.
you pointing some rehashed history and the usual "CRUSADES" and gives me the "you have a selective memory", like I'm suppose to take the blame everytime a christian from any denomination kills someone, I don't even want to argue how shallow your point is,
btw: the crusade weren't started by christians, but by the catholic church, know your history as they say...as of the evidence of a god, you can't disprove it so do you want to go into that stupid debate. I died enough time to know better.
another thing, I can prove to you that Charles Darwin was an inbraid wich married his first cousin, that his entire family were inbraid who intermarried, that doesn't his theory of evolution is invalid, it just means if he lived today where everyone is so bright, they would have equated him to tea baggers, redneck, wtv is trendy today.
btw where are you trying to go with your rant? I could argue all day with you, but if you want to release some heat just go here and watch this.
http://www.qbn.com/topics/617960…- Pure obfuscation. Catholics are christians, they believe in christ.BRNK
- Please just stay quiet, you don't see the difference between an organisation and a believe system, just be quietGeorgesII
- well it is a sort of meta organization. you make the same error in assuming that atheism isn't a multi-tendency platformspifflink
- Meeklo0
what's out with all these insults from random people?
Why is there a need to bring hate to this? I was commenting on a good documentary that focuses on a small group of religious fanatics, that happen to be christian, (in their own eyes at least).I never insulted anyone in here, just make sure you read and think before doing something like that.
- ukit0
Hey gramme, thanks for the reasoned response man. In retrospect I probably should have omitted the last line of that post as it was needlessly provocative. The bottom line is of course that we don't know and will NEVER KNOW, absent Jesus returning to Earth in which case I will happily eat my words.
Anyway, you provide some interesting historical context. I'd add one thing though, I don't think any of this means you need to reject the moral principles that are in The Bible - many of them, especially in the New Testament are positive things that we all agree on. The question I have is whether these things would have sprung up independently of religion. Think about the huge difference in philosophy between the West and the Muslim World for instance. Would those two cultures have naturally settled into those different paths or did it require religion to do it?
- JazX0
If he comes back, you'll all be in a heap of trouble.
